What Must The Big XII Do?

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What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby collegefbfan-8898 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:03 pm

I have been keeping up with college football since 1998. Honestly, I have loved Big XII football. The years of Eric Crouch and Nebraska. Chris Brown running over Nebraska winning 62-36. I didn't have to look that up. That game has always stuck with me. Sproles and Roberson, Jason White, Josh Heupel, Vince Young, Rocky Calmus, Tommie Harris, and tons of others. The games, the coaches all that. The Big XII has been in the national title mix quite a few times over the BCS years. Oklahoma played in it and won... and lost. Texas has played in it and won... and lost. Still in the mix though.

So what does the Big XII need to do to make it into the CFP? And what will the Big XII actually do to make it?

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Spence » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:22 am

I think they need Texas to be good again and they need to start being more multifaceted. They currently don't play defense. They tend to be a follower type of conference. They perceived that people were impressed by scoring (and the computers were really impressed with scoring) so they quit playing defense. The computers don't count anymore. Also, Oklahoma and Texas are their branded schools and like it or not, when one or both is down the conference is perceived down. Losing A&M and Mizzu (to a lesser extent) hurt them from a conference strength standpoint. Frankly, the B12 isn't very good right now. It isn't whether or not they get a conference championship game. It isn't necessary their ooc schedule. They just have to play better football.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby collegefbfan-8898 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:32 pm

I heard a CFP guy or media guy or someone, maybe Hocutt (or whatever his name is) say that even if Oklahoma was considered in the CFP as the Big XII champ, there is no way they would have made it in based on their style of play. A playoff team needs to be strong on offense and defense and play a sound game. And of course, in this case the teams in the Big XII haven't.

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Cane from the Bend » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:06 am

Spence wrote: Losing A&M and Mizzu (to a lesser extent) hurt them from a conference strength standpoint.


These were a tough loss to the conference, from a depth perspective. Though, I would venture to say, Colorado & Nebraska hurt the Big 12 more from a conference strength observation, when they jumped ship.

Also, I believe that not replacing all 4 teams is more of a depreciation in the eyes of those who make decisions; than not having a conference title game.

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Eric » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:31 am

I don't know what their complaint is this year. Oklahoma has beaten Oklahoma State and West Virginia. Okay, so add that in with a crushing loss at home to Ohio State and a loss to 9-3 AAC team Houston, how do they get in over Ohio State or Washington? They have no beef.

The first year of the playoff was a bit of a railroading, but the committee may have been biased towards Ohio State both for their name brand and their demolishing of Wisconsin. If Baylor met up with TCU or if one of those teams played the next team up (however the hypothetical divisions were aligned) and they added another quality victory to the slate, then they probably would have gotten in. So maybe a 12-team conference with a championship game would help.

And in 2015 they got Oklahoma into the playoff. So I don't get why everybody in the Big 12 is complaining and how the fans are putting down the Big 12 for not being able to field a team. I agree with Spence's analysis, but the conference isn't in some irreparable state of despair like some people in the media keep implying for some reason. They're 1/3. The Pac-12 is 2/3. The Big 10 is 3/3 (mainly thanks to Ohio State). There's also 14 teams in the Big 10 and SEC, 12 in the Pac-12, and 10 in the Big 12, so that at least gives those conferences higher odds of finding a worthy team.

The Big 12 will probably get a team in next year and everyone will forget about this conversation.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby collegefbfan-8898 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:56 am

Nah, I am not saying they should be in this year. Just saying that they need to do something to make more of an impact of getting in. Having two top Big XII teams match up for a "champs" game at the end of the season for a rematch isn't going to cut it, I don't think.

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby donovan » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:22 am

The question focuses on the core issue. The answer is they can not do a blessed thing. The rules do not allow all conferences to be successful.

1. They count conference games the same as non-conference and there are not enough non-conference games of high quality for all the teams. Games are scheduled out up to six or seven years. Sometimes they get cancelled, etc and the makeup games leaves zip for fill in and they are never good. Powerful, ie big money, schools will always get the best non-conference games.

2. The rules penalize a conference where there is parity. eg, the PAC 12 this year. Next year it may be a different conference, but all conference can't meet the criteria every year. Just not enough high ranking SOS teams. Remember Only 30 teams can get the top 30 spots and all the rest have to be below even if they have comparable schedules. SOS is more arbitrary than holding calls.

3. And this is the big one. There is not a school in the BIG XII that has any nationwide TV interest. Even the local interest is a small TV market.

If you want change, go to Disney Stockholders meeting. ESPN is hurting for ratings in bowl games. Last year viewership for bowl games was far below prediction and they were forced to give free ads as reimbursement to sponsors. This year the prediction of viewership is less. ESPN owns outright almost 20 college football bowls.

The solution is for college presidents to take back college sports. Chances of that happening are the same as Mrs Donovan not carping at me when I leave my ice cream bowl on the floor so the dog can lick it clean.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Vileborg » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:32 pm

What must the big12 do?

Win

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:22 pm

Vileborg wrote:What must the big12 do?

Win


Exactly and beat some good teams OOC. Your conference champ can't lose 2 OOC games.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Cane from the Bend » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:59 pm

Eric wrote:I don't know what their complaint is this year. Oklahoma has beaten Oklahoma State and West Virginia. Okay, so add that in with a crushing loss at home to Ohio State and a loss to 9-3 AAC team Houston, how do they get in over Ohio State or Washington? They have no beef.

The first year of the playoff was a bit of a railroading, but the committee may have been biased towards Ohio State both for their name brand and their demolishing of Wisconsin. If Baylor met up with TCU or if one of those teams played the next team up (however the hypothetical divisions were aligned) and they added another quality victory to the slate, then they probably would have gotten in. So maybe a 12-team conference with a championship game would help.

And in 2015 they got Oklahoma into the playoff. So I don't get why everybody in the Big 12 is complaining and how the fans are putting down the Big 12 for not being able to field a team.


Actually, nobody is arguing about the Big XII being in the Playoff's ... this year. They are complaining, now, in order to lobby their position for next season.

What the Big XII commissioner came out and said --
Bob Bowlsby: "Obviously I acknowledge the difficulty of the task, but I'm not sure what
I advise my members right now, because we've been telling them that non-conference
schedules matter, and one of the four has an exceedingly weak non-conference schedule.
And we've been telling them the 13th data point matters, and we added a conference
championship game because of that. We've always heard that conference championships
matter and division championships matter, and now it's confusing."
"I'll have some questions to ask when the time is right. Given our round-robin, nine-game
scheduling model, it is expected the Big 12 champion will be uniquely positioned for College
Football Playoff consideration."
"I'm just looking for clarity. We didn't have a team that was a likely participant in the playoff,
and so from that standpoint it doesn't make a lot of difference to us this year, but I'd just like
to know what we're supposed to advise our members.
"
"Does the 13th data point make a difference, or does it not? Does the conference championship
game make a difference, or does it not? Are they only used as tiebreakers, or is it other metrics?"

"In TCU's case, they fell out of the playoff. They had a great year and had a Heisman Trophy
candidate at quarterback and won by 50 points on the last day of the season, but we were
told the reason they didn't get in, the reason they fell, was they didn't have a 13th data point
and they didn't have a championship. Now I think it's reasonable to seek clarity on that, and
when the time is right, I will ask those questions."
{seems to me he already did just that}
"We've told our schools you shouldn't be surprised if you don't get in if you play a weak
non-conference schedule, and then somebody with a weak non-conference schedule does
get in. It's just another case in which we need to seek clarification."
"They have a difficult job to do. We just need to know what the rules are."


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Vileborg wrote:What must the big12 do?

Win


:lol: Yeah, that ...

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Spence wrote:Exactly and beat some good teams OOC. Your conference champ can't lose 2 OOC games.


Which brings me to the next point I was going to make.

As noted above, you see Bowlsby says, he is looking to "Seek Clarity", citing how Washington was allowed into the playoff, even though they played a weak out of conference schedule -- however he wants to defer to data points.

The playoff committee uses Out-of-Conference schedule strength as 1 data point. But, that argument falls thin, when you factor in the other data point for Out-of-Conference games, wins vs. losses.

Oklahoma only solidified the exemption of the Big XII this season, by not beating those Out-of-Conference opponents that would otherwise have strengthened their schedule. Yes, the Sooners played a harder OoC than did Washington. However, Oklahoma was 1-2 OoC, whereas the Huskies went 3-0.

Also, another aspect of your schedule, is your In-Conference games, that Washington did have a strength to hang their hat on.

At the time Washington played these teams, each were ranked as:

#7 Stanford
#17 Utah
#20 USC [a loss for UW, but if we're giving credit to Oklahoma for losing to OSU & Houston]
#23 Washington State
#8 Colorado

Factor that, on top of the Huskies being Pac-12 Champs, then you have all of the clarification necessary.

All they are doing is posturing, and arming themselves with preemptive validation for 2017.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:45 pm

Washington got in because they had one loss and won a power 5 conference. If they had lost to Colorado, Penn State would have likely been in because the CCG would have separated them and Michigan even though Michigan beat them head to head. Also they got in because they couldn't put Oklahoma in and they didn't want to put in 2 from the same conference. Something like that could dissolve the alliance before it gets going good.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby donovan » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:03 pm

Wins are overated in this system. Washington is a money school. They got in. Western Michigan should be in but because the moon was over the cusp of Venus shining on an Amway salemans who had on a bowtie and wore white after labor day, they don't get in. You have to play to the subjective rules, which is money or you don't dance.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:35 pm

donovan wrote:Wins are overated in this system. Washington is a money school. They got in. Western Michigan should be in but because the moon was over the cusp of Venus shining on an Amway salemans who had on a bowtie and wore white after labor day, they don't get in. You have to play to the subjective rules, which is money or you don't dance.


I'm not sure it is quite that simple, but for sure if you are a school that is considered a draw it works in your favor. Penn State is a pretty big brand in the east. Their history is at least equal to that of Washington, but they didn't make it. Notre Dame is probably the only school that is more blue blood then Michigan and they didn't make it either.

I do agree, though, if they want to have a playoff then every school should have a path to get in. If not, go back to the old way and let a bunch of high and mighty sports reporter hand out a mythical award every year and go back to the traditional bowl games.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby billybud » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:38 am

Past history carries an echo...this Oklahoma goes undefeated in conference but loses two OOC games....

And the echo of the last two consecutive bowl losses to Clemson still echoes...particularly last year's 20 point loss.

Oklahoma is conference champ and Clemson wipes them out.
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Re: What Must The Big XII Do?

Postby Spence » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:15 am

billybud wrote:Past history carries an echo...this Oklahoma goes undefeated in conference but loses two OOC games....

And the echo of the last two consecutive bowl losses to Clemson still echoes...particularly last year's 20 point loss.

Oklahoma is conference champ and Clemson wipes them out.


And Ohio State and Houston OOC this year. The conference isn't getting better yet....
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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