Notre Dame drops to...

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billybud
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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:18 am

I do think past history weighs in...

The last several seasons...Bama and Clemson have been very, very good.

Clemson, in the recent playoffs...has wiped out Ohio State 30-0, beaten Oklahoma by 20, Notre Dame by 27, Alabama by 28.

Bama jumped on Michigan State 38-0, Oklahoma 45-34, Clemson by 18....

In 2017...Bama and Georgia were close in strength....both were 12-1 going into the CFP....

Georgia got a "do over"...they lost to Auburn than played Auburn again and got a win in the SEC CCG. Alabama also only lost to Auburn.

The Bama 26-23 win over Georgia in the NC game was one of the better games in the NC series.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Mountainman » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:37 am

I wasn’t going to chime-in with my two cents worth, but what the heck...... I believe the money changers, for the sake of the game, need to learn which end of the cow they’re supposed to milk.

First order of business, 12 game regular season requiring 11 Power 5 Opponents to determine participants. Next, a 16 team National Championship Playoff, seeded by a ‘committee’.

Everybody’s happy by getting what they want. 8)
”We’re already in a time where the on-field aspect of College Football is almost a distraction. It’s an era filled with handwringing about player empowerment, NCAA deregulation, the transfer portal and realignment all while the sport generally moves toward a professional model.” ~ Dennis Dodd

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:43 pm

billybud wrote:I do think past history weighs in...

The last several seasons...Bama and Clemson have been very, very good.

Clemson, in the recent playoffs...has wiped out Ohio State 30-0, beaten Oklahoma by 20, Notre Dame by 27, Alabama by 28.

Bama jumped on Michigan State 38-0, Oklahoma 45-34, Clemson by 18....

In 2017...Bama and Georgia were close in strength....both were 12-1 going into the CFP....

Georgia got a "do over"...they lost to Auburn than played Auburn again and got a win in the SEC CCG. Alabama also only lost to Auburn.

The Bama 26-23 win over Georgia in the NC game was one of the better games in the NC series.


I think past history does weigh in, but I also think that is one of the problems. The reason Ohio State got in that year was past history and allowing a do over by Georgia or Ohio State when they don't win their conference is wrong. They think they are picking the four best teams, but if they really new who the best teams were there would be know reason to play at all. They could just crown a champion and be done with it --- just like they used to do. Allowing conference champs to play at least allows new blood into the mix and makes the conferences prove themselves with the others. That is no guarantee that you will get the best teams, but neither is the system that is in place now - or any other system that has been used in the past for that matter.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:21 pm

Winning the conference is not the end all..

Not when you aspire to have the best teams play for it...Sure Ohio State might not have been worthy and it showed when Clemson throttled them...was Penn State more worthy? After Michigan blew their doors off, winning by 39 points? And after losing to Pitt? Nope.

A 12-1 loser of the SEC title game could be a far better team than the champion of another conference.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:26 pm

And allowing 12-1 Bama and 12-1 Georgia to play in the CFP was only allowing the best four teams in the country to play for it...

And Georgia proved on the field that they were better than conference champ Oklahoma. And Bama proved it on the field when they beat conference champ Clemson...
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Mountainman » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:33 pm

......a clarification, the committee does not get to pick which 16 teams qualify, the committee only seeds the 16 teams that do qualify. A team would qualify by their Wins during the regular season based on a similar method Cane employs in the Fantasy Conference contest here on the board.

Every Power Five team would amass a value based on their wins, every opponent who defeats a team accumulates the defeated team’s value. Top 16 accumulated values qualify, committee seeds themin case of ties, if numerous teams tied for 16th spot, coin flip, heads or tails or odd man out or draw ‘em out of a hat..... and let’s play ball.
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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:24 pm

billybud wrote:And allowing 12-1 Bama and 12-1 Georgia to play in the CFP was only allowing the best four teams in the country to play for it...

And Georgia proved on the field that they were better than conference champ Oklahoma. And Bama proved it on the field when they beat conference champ Clemson...



Alabama was 11-1 ... they did not have a 13th data point, since they were not the SEC West representative for the Conference title in 2017.

And Auburn, having beaten both Alabama & Georgia during the Regular Season renders that ideology Unsustainable.

That is what the regular season conference games are for. If Auburn proved they could win, on the field; and Georgia proved they could beat Auburn, too ... Alabama should have to prove they could beat Auburn ... but they didn't.

Allowing Alabama to play for the National Championship because you believe they are one of the four best teams, essentially makes the SEC Championship unnecessary.

If Alabama was going to be in the tournament anyway, the only thing the SEC did was give the 11-1 SEC West runner up a repreve that they were actually the best team.

And, as much as you'd say, they proved it on the field ... I would suggest, they got away with a win late, in OT, proving that they could win 1 game, close. It didn't, however, prove that they were the best team. Nor does it prove they deserved to be in the game to begin with.

Is it evidence ... yes. Proof however, is still rather subjective.

Because, Purdue proved they were a better team one night against Ohio state last year. Were they a better overall team..?

The teams they lost to, and the teams Ohio State beat. The Buckeyes going on to win the Big 10 title, whereas Purdue didn't play for the conference crown.

Was Alabama a really good team, yes.

But don't pretend that they didn't win the title by default. As that was the only reason they were in the 2017 Championship game to begin with.

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:22 pm

billybud wrote:Winning the conference is not the end all..

Not when you aspire to have the best teams play for it...Sure Ohio State might not have been worthy and it showed when Clemson throttled them...was Penn State more worthy? After Michigan blew their doors off, winning by 39 points? And after losing to Pitt? Nope.

A 12-1 loser of the SEC title game could be a far better team than the champion of another conference.


What I am saying is that there is no measurable way to pick the best four teams so it is an exercise in futility to try to do it. It is a criteria that allows for humans to control who gets in based on whatever criteria they decide fits their opinion and not the other way around.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:26 pm

Also Just because Georgia and Alabama beat Clemson and Oklahoma doesn't stand as proof they were the best. That sampling only represents 3 conferences out of 10. So over 100 teams were not represented in the only process that us not subjective.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:27 pm

And don't pretend that Bama wasn't a top four team....that was evident by the final snap of the season.

Bama only lost to Auburn....as did Georgia....That is the problem with having divisions. Two teams have an equal 11-1 with the loss to the same team...only it didn't count for the team from a different division. But there was no difference, essentially, between Georgia and Bama..except that Alabama did beat Georgi in their match up.

Auburn's problem was that they lost to Clemson and LSU...prior to losing to Georgia in the rAuburn- Georgia retry and then to UCF.
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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:29 pm

billybud wrote:And don't pretend that Bama wasn't a top four team....that was evident by the final snap of the season.

Bama only lost to Auburn....as did Georgia....That is the problem with having divisions. Two teams have an equal 11-1 with the loss to the same team...only it didn't count for the team from a different division. But there was no difference, essentially, between Georgia and Bama..except that Alabama did beat Georgi in their match up.

Auburn's problem was that they lost to Clemson and LSU...prior to losing to Georgia in the rAuburn- Georgia retry and then to UCF.


So head to head shouldn't be a tie breaker in the event that there is a tie?
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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:25 pm

__________________________________________

The point is, it doesn't matter whether Alabama was supposedly a top 4 team or not ...

You only assume that because of the last snap of the last game.

However; if that is as it will be, Then simply do away with the SEC championship game, because it proves that venue meaningless.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:45 pm

Spence wrote:
billybud wrote:And don't pretend that Bama wasn't a top four team....that was evident by the final snap of the season.

Bama only lost to Auburn....as did Georgia....That is the problem with having divisions. Two teams have an equal 11-1 with the loss to the same team...only it didn't count for the team from a different division. But there was no difference, essentially, between Georgia and Bama..except that Alabama did beat Georgi in their match up.

Auburn's problem was that they lost to Clemson and LSU...prior to losing to Georgia in the rAuburn- Georgia retry and then to UCF.


So head to head shouldn't be a tie breaker in the event that there is a tie?


Well Spence...the problem with Georgia-Alabama that year...is that they did not play head to head in conference (& rarely do)....at the time of the SEC championship game, both teams had lost to Auburn and that was the only loss for both teams...but, being in a different division was all the difference because that put Bama behind Auburn in the West but didn't hurt Georgia in the East.. In the last ten seasons, Bama and Georgia have only been on the SEC regular season conference schedule for one game.

The head to head did eventually come...in the NC game...and Alabama prevailed over Georgia
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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:53 pm

billybud wrote:
Spence wrote:
billybud wrote:And don't pretend that Bama wasn't a top four team....that was evident by the final snap of the season.

Bama only lost to Auburn....as did Georgia....That is the problem with having divisions. Two teams have an equal 11-1 with the loss to the same team...only it didn't count for the team from a different division. But there was no difference, essentially, between Georgia and Bama..except that Alabama did beat Georgi in their match up.

Auburn's problem was that they lost to Clemson and LSU...prior to losing to Georgia in the rAuburn- Georgia retry and then to UCF.


So head to head shouldn't be a tie breaker in the event that there is a tie?


Well Spence...the problem with Georgia-Alabama that year...is that they did not play head to head in conference (& rarely do)....at the time of the SEC championship game, both teams had lost to Auburn and that was the only loss for both teams...but, being in a different division was all the difference because that put Bama behind Auburn in the West but didn't hurt Georgia in the East.. In the last ten seasons, Bama and Georgia have only been on the SEC regular season conference schedule for one game.

The head to head did eventually come...in the NC game...and Alabama prevailed over Georgia



Yes, which did not need to happen, because the way Divisions work.

Like I said; do away with the SEC Championship if that's how it is going to be justified. If Divisions are the issue, then don't have them ...

Or, if you are going to keep them; then let them serve their purpose.

Anything else is just an excuse.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: Notre Dame drops to...

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:58 pm

Right, sorry I had forgot that. Still, the conference can fix things like that and it doesn't change the fact that only 3 conferences were represented in a playoff to determine the best team. They may have gotten it right and they may not. I'm not saying that a tournament of champions gives you the best teams or the actual best team comes out of it. I am saying that it is the only subjective way to determine a champion. The system now, as in the past, is simply not an objective way to determine a champ. For the college football world to pretend that they now have a system that determines a true champion, is just not true. It is purely just another way to market and extract money for the schools, Disney, and Fox,
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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