Big Ten Speed...Still not Up to Florida or even FSU

[billybud]

It was a mismatch...Ohio State was Notre Dame like in being footslow and over rated. LSU, Auburn, heck, even FSU would have made for a better match.

The OSU O tackles could not move fast enough to contain Fla's DE's...the Buckeye lines made FSU's maligned offensive line look like gladiators (FSU allowed one sack).

The Buckeye linebackers were horrible in coverage and were slower than what the Gators usually face...Gator receivers against OSU linebackers meant short completions at will. Meyer's scrubs could have put up a 48 point total if they weren't just assigned to run out the clock.

On offense, the Bucks were getting killed up front, the receivers were blanketed, and the running game was not very threatening. The offense scored all of seven points. The Gators lived in the OSU backfield...they were stronger and faster.

It was Notre Dame all over again...a lot of hype that wasn't backed up by performance...everybody got it wrong, OSU was no #1 team.

After watching PSU last year getting taken to triple OT by a mediocre FSU with a fast defense and this year Michigan getting destroyed by SoCal and Ohio State by Florida, I now wonder if the Big Ten isn't a little footslow up front on offense.

[Spence]

I think that pretty much sums it up. Ohio State's tackles could not handle Florida's DE's. Florida dominated them up front and made it impossible for Ohio State to operate their offense. Ohio State only managed to put together one drive in the game.

[billybud]

Spence...I know this loss must be must be disappointing...but coaches learn lessons...I would expect OSU and Michigan to work on their O lines and recruit tackles with quicker feet.

I know that we recruit O tackles who have long arms, quick feet, and, importantly, fluid hips. The guy must beat his man to the blocking point between the line and the QB and be strong enough to slow him down.

Bobby believes, however, that it is very difficult to have the same guys be pass protection specialists and be able to be punishing run blockers...he says while some are great both ways, the prototypical tackle in pass protection has different attributes than a straight power lblocker.

[bama_girl]

playoff!!! playoff!!! playoff!!!


i'd like to see florida v/s boise state, LSU v/s USC, WV v/s arkansas ect. ect. ect.....

[bama_girl]

etc. even

[donovan]

Agreed ... the current "polling" structure is entirely to easily influenced by media hype--remember that Michigan clearly was the 2nd best team by most accounts before the USC game ... not to mention that Florida was going to get blown out.

Apart from being grossly over-hyped, how is it the Big 10 does not have a setup to allow for each of its teams to play one another or have some type of title game? While I'm not a huge fan of conference championships, it would seem a natural thing to implement if a conference is of a size that does not allow teams to play every team in their conference (10 is possible though no?)

Ten is possible...you just have to be in a Conference that knows how to count

[RazorHawk]

With an eleven team conference, playing everyone is not feasible, as it would not allow for sufficient non-conference games and probably wind up costing teams money, as they would have at least one fewer home game.

As for a conference playoff, the NCAA has a rule that states a conference must have a minimum of 12 teams to be able to conduct a playoff in football.

I wish the Big 10 would add a 12 team and then divide into two divisions, similar to the Big 12 or SEC. Not sure if the division would be East/West or North/South or simply arbitrary to try to balance the power.

Notre Dame would be perfect, but they do not wish to give up their TV contract and also joining a conference would take them away from their cupcake scheduling and national spotlight.

[Spence]

Spence...I know this loss must be must be disappointing...but coaches learn lessons...I would expect OSU and Michigan to work on their O lines and recruit tackles with quicker feet.

I know that we recruit O tackles who have long arms, quick feet, and, importantly, fluid hips. The guy must beat his man to the blocking point between the line and the QB and be strong enough to slow him down.

Bobby believes, however, that it is very difficult to have the same guys be pass protection specialists and be able to be punishing run blockers...he says while some are great both ways, the prototypical tackle in pass protection has different attributes than a straight power lblocker.

I have pulled the knife out of my heart so the wound may begin to heal.

I re-watched the game today because I wanted to watch it without emotion. A couple of things I noticed:

Florida didn't beat Ohio State with speed, they beat them with strength. The Florida DE's didn't run around the Buckeye tackles, they ran over them. Ohio State's tackles were not playing low enough. The offensive line is a position where you must use leverage as in wrestling. If you allow a DE to get that leverage he will move you backwards.

Also the rushing stats are skewed because the times Troy Smith went back to throw and ended up running for his life, are counted as rushes in CFB.

As far as the recievers go, I couldn't see the recievers in coverage on TV, but I talked to a buddy of mine at the game and he said that the Florida coverage was good, but Gonzo and Robiskie were open on out patterns and across the middle quite a bit. Hartline was shut off the whole game. The Florida pressure on TS is what kept the offense from moving.

That fact is what is troubling to me. I can live with Florida being faster. It is harder to live with losing the physical battle.

Ohio State refused to press Florida on defense. Something that makes no sense to me, given the fact that the cover 2 without pressure wasn't working at all.

Florida was a better team. No question.

That is the reason that scheduling good OOC games is so important. You can never know how good a team is unless they play good competition OOC. Conference play tells you nothing. Which was my main point when I said that Michigan shouldn't get a rematch.

Part of Florida's problem this year was the same. They played no one out of the SEC. If they had, they would have likely not had the problem getting into the championship game.

Ohio State didn't belong in the national championship game because the played a terrible schedule and didn't prove anything. Strength of schedule should be part of the BCS system. To get a true picture of SOS, you need to have the top teams play each other in OOC games during the season. That eliminates teams, like Ohio State last night, getting to play in games they don't belong in.

If it were just a question of speed then Penn State and Wisconsin, both more physical then Ohio State, would have been beaten badly.

[billybud]

I watched it again also Spence...if you watch, the Gator DE's are on top of the O lineman's shoulder fast...the O lineman can not set and use his arms to hold the guy off because the O lineman is upright and back pedaling after being pushed. And once he has your shoulder he can bull rush through you.

I don't know if you have access to the FSU/Fla game...if you do, watch the difference in the OT's getting to the blocking spot, setting back and keeping the DE's at arm's length and off of their shoulder.

The Gator defensive line was much stronger, I agree, than the Ohio State O line...that was evident when they caved in the line on the 3rd and 4th and short.

[Spence]

I'm not arguing that point. What I am saying is if an offensive lineman is playing low enough, you can't get leverage on him. Even if you bull rush. It is a point of wrestling. Florida's DE's came in low and got leverage. Then they moved the tackle off the line.

That is coaching and being a better player. Boone, the left tackle who got punished the worst, blocked the wrong guy a couple of times and was out of position most of the game. You can't do that against good players. He got by most of the year being better then the guy he was facing. Last night he wasn't better.

The only lineman who played decent was Datish (the center) and he is the least talented guy on the line.

[Jason G]

Ohio State didn't belong in the national championship game because the played a terrible schedule and didn't prove anything. Strength of schedule should be part of the BCS system. To get a true picture of SOS, you need to have the top teams play each other in OOC games during the season. That eliminates teams, like Ohio State last night, getting to play in games they don't belong in.

I still say, though, that you can't ever know exactly how good or bad teams will turn out to be when you schedule them. A team that scheduled Iowa or Pittsburgh this year would have been disappointed in their SOS due to events beyond their control. The reverse could be said for teams that scheduled Rutgers, Wake Forest, Arkansas, or Wisconsin. In many cases these games are scheduled half a decade before the meeting would ever take place thus making it even more difficult to project where a team will be at that point.

Plus, it takes two to schedule a game. You can try your hardest to schedule "high profile" opponents but there is no rule saying they have to agree to play. It is also true that many teams schedules are already full for years. I like to see football programs have some "class" and keep their schedule commitmments and not leave another program in a scheduling predicament simply because they were looking to strenghten their SOS numbers. This is starting to happen MUCH too frequently.

Therefore, I think SOS should be a consideration when comparing teams. I just don't think that it should be the main consideration (as so many seem to) because of all the variables involved in scheduling.

[Spence]

I still say, though, that you can't ever know exactly how good or bad teams will turn out to be when you schedule them. A team that scheduled Iowa or Pittsburgh this year would have been disappointed in their SOS due to events beyond their control. The reverse could be said for teams that scheduled Rutgers, Wake Forest, Arkansas, or Wisconsin. In many cases these games are scheduled half a decade before the meeting would ever take place thus making it even more difficult to project where a team will be at that point.

I agree it is a crapshoot. Ohio State, on paper had a pretty good schedule. Texas, Cincinnati, and Northern Illinois (who was projected to be MAC champ). Then they had Iowa, Penn State, Minnesota, and Michigan in the B-10. Who would of thought they would all pick this year to take a nose dive?

Still even if you schedule something that looks like a good schedule and it turns out not to be good, you shouldn't make it in. The schedule should be good to qualify. If some team that should make it doesn't, that is the breaks. A team who should have made it this year didn't because Ohio State did. At least the other way, you know that the team who made it is pretty good.

[billybud]

You don't have to schedule top 10 teams...just a few teams respected as being "dangerous" ...UCLA isn't ranked, but they had a defense that made them dangerous to USC, Utah, etc.

Then win a bowl against a top 10 team, and you may finish top 5.

[donovan]

You don't have to schedule top 10 teams...just a few teams respected as being "dangerous" ...UCLA isn't ranked, but they had a defense that made them dangerous to USC, Utah, etc.

Then win a bowl against a top 10 team, and you may finish top 5.

I think that is absolutely correct. One of the fall outs Boise's win is there will be schools, down the food chain, that will want to schedule with Boise. It may not show up in the SOS rankings as well, but it certainly will in the pizazz...for a while.

If I understand Mr. Billybud right, and that apparently is easier to do than the converse...there are schools that historically have strong reputations. Some mentioned. Scheduling those works just fine. If you schedule a team two three or six years in advance...which is done..there is no guarantee the year you play them they will be any good; but if it was a team with historic strength..it still counts.

I think you just have to have a plan. Again...Boises this year....designed several years ago, was to try an go undefeated, even if it meant no great teams. It worked....would it work consistently....maybe if you go undefeated every year...no likely to happen.... but now it is probably time to kick it up just a little and keep the record respectable. You do not need a perfect record to go all the way...as in this year...you just have to win the right games.

I think Ohio State was a much better team than played last night....I suppose most do. But unfortunately the largest audience saw them last night.

Am I OK with Boise at number 5...yes I am...Do I think they could be ranked higher...yes....I think the guy from New Mexico that voted them number one had guts, and reasoning. Where would I have ranked them....because of their schedule, .....number three...Would have put Flordia One and LSU 2. Close game and Ohio could have been two.

Remember I said, it was in Boises best interest to have Ohio State win. I think had they won Boise would have been ranked higher for reasons stated earlier...

[Spence]

If I understand Mr. Billybud right, and that apparently is easier to do than the converse...there are schools that historically have strong reputations. Some mentioned. Scheduling those works just fine. If you schedule a team two three or six years in advance...which is done..there is no guarantee the year you play them they will be any good; but if it was a team with historic strength..it still counts.

It is true, but it shouldn't be true. You should have to play a good schedule OOC schedule no matter what. Ohio State didn't belong in the championship game. The schedule proved that, but know one looked at the schedule, because it was Ohio State. That is wrong.