Big East Cinderella Conference?

[billybud]

Yawn...more scorn from the jilted. Get over it Big East! It is so old by now. Like a bitter old exwife who stays frozen in her hatred instead of getting on with life.

Enjoy your conference and lose the anger....and if you are a WVU fan rejoice in the fact that the teams that would have been the BE conference champs are no longer there as rivals...

WVU is 3-7 against VT over last 10 seasons
and WVU is 1-7 against Miami over last 10 seasons

Two games that were losses in more years than not are taken off the schedule...rejoice...be happy...enjoy the prominence of being listed Top Five...but please, please, quit whining about your ex.

[Yeofoot]

The Big East will indeed make a comeback, especially now that FSU, UF, and UM are all on their way to mediocrity. USF and UCF have already begun taking people from the big 3's talent pool.

[Eric]

USF and UCF might steal from the depth of the big 3 schools, but the blue chips and 5 star athletes will continue going to Florida, FSU, and Miami over the "other 2" as I will call them. Don't forget about Florida International, either. They have a good program in the making, probably one that will use the Sun Belt as a launching pad and jump ship to C-USA. Not so sure about Florida Atlantic, but they have the potential to do a little bit of damage in Sun Belt play with coach Schnellenberger.

[Yeofoot]

Oh, I definitely agree that they Big 3 will continue to get the elite recruits, but since they have a tendency to be kicked off of the teams, since the big 3, well, just FSU and UM, always get the thug 5 stars, they get kicked off and the studs that would replace them are now at the 2nd tier Florida schools. It's tempting to go somewhere and start right away when you are a 4 star. There was a superfluous amount of talent at those schools, so just like a corporation making a lot of money at high margins, competitors move into the market until there is zero economic profit. This is true in the market for talented football players also. And at schools like FSU where you can break all the rules and still play in the big game if you are a star kicker. But if you are one of the plebians on the team you get crapped on, like Bowden does, you're like F*** this, and you go to a school that is respectful to their players, like any school besides Miami of FSU.

[Eric]

Good analysis, Yeofoot. I think that may be the case too, especially with South Florida. Even though they didn't have a great recruiting class, with a little bit of time and some more success in an average conference, the 3 and 4 stars you were talking about will get to start at least within one year in a BCS conference. That should be a very attractive deal to the guys that throw for 200 yards in their career at Florida as the 3rd quarterback who never gets higher than 2nd string in his span there.

Look at Matt Guitierrez (former Michigan QB). He was supposed to start 2 years ago against Miami OH on opening day 2004 before he was sidelined and Henne got a blowout which gave him the starting job. Matt is now starting for the Bengals of Idaho State.

[Eric]

I can't comprehend this "we're better off without them" attitude either. Tell me how USF, Louisville, and Cincinnati will replace BC, VT, and Miami anytime in the near future? Long-term, I don't even see it happening. It was a big loss for the Big East, but that conference needs to step back and see the opportunity. Now is time for a school like Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, or UConn to take that next step and get on par with Louisville and West Virginia. It's very possible.

[Yeofoot]

Texas had like 3 runningbacks transfer before the rose bowl, with 4 studs playing and being loved already, it was a good plan.

[billybud]

Well Sherman...if you put up a poll with only three answers and all of them derogatory about the ACC new guys...don't play "innocent"...it was what it was...a whiny backhand.
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Re recruiting in Florida...Florida is everybody's mecca for recruits (along with Texas and California)...even the Big Snow folks are getting Florida kids.

The lesser Florida schools aren't competing with the "Big 3", they are competing with OSU, Purdue, Louisville, South Carolina, Minnesota, Nebraska, South Carolina and the like....USF and UCF may get the third tier.

OSU... Albert Dukes WR, Maurice Wells, TB, Walter Dublin DE, Chimdi Chekwa CB

Minnesota...WR Jakari Wallace, WR Logan Payne, WR Micah Rucker, DE Eric Clark, CB Michael McKelton, CB Jamaal Harris, S Brandon Owens, LB Junior Eugene...ordered out for speed.

Purdue....LB Cliff Avril, LB Josh Ferguson. LB Al Royal, FS Adam Wolfe, Joe Whitest

The Big East guys like Florida (especially Louisville)

Louisville....CB Travis Norton, WR Patrick Carter, LB Nate Harris, CB William Gay, RB George Stripling, CB E.K. Sawyer, CB Gavin Smart,
RB Kolby Smith, S Brandon Sharp, LB Abe Brown, S Terrance Butler, LB Mozell Axson, OL Danny Barlowe, OL Josh Deer, TE Gary Barnidge, WR Stevin Williams, LB Johnnie Burns, DE Johnathon Holston, S Brandon Heath, QB Emmanuel Francis, OL Hector Hernandez, WR Latarrius Thomas, DT Kareem Crowell, WR Johnny Patrick, DT Frank Grimes,
OL Jeremy Baker, OL Ryan Kessling, DE Rodney Knat, LB James Poe,
RB Anthony Allen...

Is this a Florida team..or what?

WVU......DL Pat Liebig, LB John Holmes, DB Quinton Andrews, QB Dwayne Thompson, QB Jarrett Brown, DB Kent Richardson, DB Charles Pugh, P Scott Kozlowski, Tito Gonzales, DT Johnny Dingle, S Eddie Davis,
DE Marcus Broxie, LB James Thomas

even some SEC teams get some guys..

Georgia....DT Jeff Owens, WR Mike Moore, C Kevin Perez, ROV Kelin Johnson, & CB Donovan Baldwin

South Carolina...DT Lemuel Jeanpierre, K Jordan Dodds, DE Kerry Bonds, LB Marvin Sapp, CB Stoney Woodson, LB Brent Davis,
LB Gerrod Sinclair, S Ike Crowfoot, LB Cody Wells, WR Mike West,

even way out on the northern plains...

Nebraska.....OL Cruz Barrett, DB Andre Jones, QB Harrison Beck, CB Donald Defrand, WR Frantz Hardy, P Tyler Kester, LB Steven Octavien, OL Brock Pasteur

[colorado_loves_football]

While BC and VPI languish in anonynimity in the mid-tier teams of the ACC.

huh ??? if i recall , BC was 9-3 last year . including wins over clemson, nc state, virginia and maryland . not shabby . i know it's not rutgers, south florida, cinn and syracuse. but not bad . i think BC is doing okay for itself. .

For all the hoop-la accompanying the arrival of traditional Big East powehouses, I find it somewhat ironic, that it's a relatively mediocre FSU team that wins, in the first year all three teams are represented.
And even more ironic, that W. Virginia not only wins the Big East in a landslide, but knocks off what many considered to be a national title contender in Georgia.
All it says to me, is that it's possible those teams were over-rated to begin with. Sure, the Big East is an outstanding conference. Probably always will be. But, I'm not convinced myself, that BC was any better, last year, as an ACC member than they were as a Big East member.
If you want evidence of it, I think you need look no further than their losing to NC. NC, after all lost to BC in the continental tire bowl, 2004.
It would appear to me Miami has lost ground as an ACC member.
VT, I guess has done ok, but would have been better suited as a Big East member, if last year's results mean anything.

[billybud]

Uhh...ClF...Do you also find it ironic that Virginia Tech beat both Louisville and West Virginia by double digits last year? How does that speak to you?

And re losing to NC i the ACC while beating them in the BE...BC lost to Wake Forest two years in a row in the BE...beat 'em in the ACC...you just can't make weird one game statements stand up.

[mountainman]

Uhh...ClF...Do you also find it ironic that Virginia Tech beat both Louisville and West Virginia by double digits last year? How does that speak to you?

And re losing to NC i the ACC while beating them in the BE...BC lost to Wake Forest two years in a row in the BE...beat 'em in the ACC...you just can't make weird one game statements stand up.

Did I miss something here or did you just ..........

[billybud]

LOL...you probably skipped over CLF's rambling whimsy....

And even more ironic, that W. Virginia not only wins the Big East in a landslide, but knocks off what many considered to be a national title contender in Georgia.

All it says to me, is that it's possible those teams were over-rated to begin with. Sure, the Big East is an outstanding conference. Probably always will be. But, I'm not convinced myself, that BC was any better, last year, as an ACC member than they were as a Big East member.
If you want evidence of it, I think you need look no further than their losing to NC. NC, after all lost to BC in the continental tire bowl, 2004.

Seems like CLF is trying to do several contradictory things in this not too well thopught out post...blow WVU's horn for beating Georgia (I'm OK with that) while saying that VT was probably overrated in the BE. I pointed out that VT did beat WVU and Louisville handily..can't have it both ways.

His next weirdism is saying that North Carolina lost to BC while BC was in the BE but beat BC in the ACC, somehow inferring that BC was better in the BE...I pointed out that Wake Forest beat BC two years in a row while BC was in the BE and BC beat Wake in the ACC...can't have it both ways.

[mountainman]

I like both those teams and do not wish anything bad for them. Do I think they are better off, you ask? No I don't.

As a matter of fact, I'm a big fan of Frank Beamer. Don't get me wrong, I loved to beat those Hokies and it ground my guts when the Hokies would beat the Mountaineers, but I've followed Coach Beamer since he arrived at Virginia Tech.

He and Don Nehlen, one of my favorites, are good friends and from what I understand, still maintain their relationship. What is a little surprising is how their careers are paralleling. Both took mediocre programs and built them to national prominence and then ........ well, lets hope Coach Beamer's fate turn out better than what fate had in store for Coach Nehlen.

I'm still not convinced that the move was all Virginia Tech's idea ..... things got awfully political when the University of Virginia threatened to withhold their vote for expanding the ACC conference if VT wasn't included.

Boston College ...... go figure. I have a suspicion that BC felt they were at somewhat of a disadvantage in the Big East due to the entrance requirements being quite high at BC while the remained of the conference members were recruiting under a different set of criteria. The ACC had higher entrance requirements than the Big East had at the time of the raid, but since that time the Big East has changed it's requirements.

Who knows .... something was driving their decision. I read a piece that it may have even had something to do with Notre Dame's affiliation with the Big East, such as it is. BC wanted Notre Dame either in for all sports or out of the conference all together.

[billybud]

Well, to get back to the topic, I don't believe anyone has made a case that either BC or VPI is better off in the ACC.

Nobody, other than disgruntled BE fans really gives a rat's patootie about the reality of "being better off"....you don't see the subject being breached on this board by an ACC fan. It's BE fans trying to make it all feel better.

But...Since you begged the question, most ACC guys do feel good about expansion.

1. The ACC set an all-time NFL record when 12 conference players were picked in the first round. That's more than any single league produced in NFL history.

2. The ACC put more guys (52) into the draft than any conference, 20% more than the next nearest conference. Kids want to play where they have a chance to play at the next level.

3. ACC coaches aren't sandbagging when they talk about the talent they face each week. For example, Louisville's Elvis Dumervil led the nation with 20 sacks last season, was named the national defensive player of the year, and a consensus all-American. He was the Big East's defensive player of the year. But did you know there were 18 ACC defensive players drafted ahead of Dumervil?

Amazingly, of the eight BCS schools which did not have a player drafted, four are from the Big East: Rutgers, Connecticut, South Florida, and Cincinnati. Umm, that's half the league.

4. The ACC football contract was almost doubled to $40 Million. More games are televised and more televised nationally. The bowl and number of bowls allotted are improving.

5. The ACC is now seen as one of the power conferences and can be mentioned in the same breath as the SEC, B-10, or B-12.

6. Director's Cup...the ACC is more competitive now...had five programs in the Top 30....

7...Other odd benefits (from Billy's perspective)
.....a. Complacency is gone...football is exciting. Miami cruised through the BE, losing only to Va Tech 1998-2003. Miami now is jacked up. FSU cruised through the ACC, winning 12 of 14 championships...FSU is now jacked up and excited...no cruising, just bruising.

.....b. The ACC is no longer held hostage by the Tobacco Road founders of the conference who felt they owned the "A" stock and everyone else had common shares.

I think most ACC folks like the results of expansion..sure, there are some negatives, nothing is free...but overall, I think everyone is happy.

[billybud]

The interesting thing is...that Syracuse wanted to go to the ACC, WVU would have gone to the ACC in a NY minute if invited (and would have made more sense than BC)...the BE, by having a smorgasborg, pick your sport conference, did nothing to secure the future of its football schools. The ND cherry picking of BE bowls is another weak point for the conference.

And most like to forget, but Trained Geese met with ACC officials years before the ACC considered expansion...he wanted the ACC to take BE football programs and the BE would concentrate on basketball. He sort of got his wish...