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Don't get me wrong, TCU is a great team. But I have had Utah as a pretender for a while. The high rankings were based on being undefeated while maybe beating Air Force by 5 was their best win.

As much as Eric and I go back and forth about transitive wins, I believe that we all compute in how a team plays against another team. When Pitt took Utah to OT in Utah and then was throttled by Miami, I started wondering about Utah. In my PM to Donovan, my trusty voting group partner, I'd whine about Utah being high and that they weren't that good.

TCU may run the table and Boise definitely will. This scenario will get interesting, I think.

billybud wrote:Don't get me wrong, TCU is a great team. But I have had Utah as a pretender for a while. The high rankings were based on being undefeated while maybe beating Air Force by 5 was their best win.

As much as Eric and I go back and forth about transitive wins, I believe that we all compute in how a team plays against another team. When Pitt took Utah to OT in Utah and then was throttled by Miami, I started wondering about Utah. In my PM to Donovan, my trusty voting group partner, I'd whine about Utah being high and that they weren't that good.

TCU may run the table and Boise definitely will. This scenario will get interesting, I think.

I agree that you have to look at how they play. Transitive wins can't and won't tell you everything because some teams just match up better against a team than others, but you can usually tell when that happens. That is where I believe that wins aren't everything. That is why I railed against Hawaii a few years ago. I don't see that with Boise State - or quite frankly TCU. I don't know if either are the best team in the country, but I really haven't seen any evidence to tell me anything different.

I I saw them play a couple of times. I thought they were a top 25 team and even top 20 against Pitt and Air Force. But I never thought they were top 10. Now they had drives and defensive series that looked top 10...but any team in the top 50 will show you that 4 or 5 times a year. The Utes never looked like the team they had that beat Bama. But they are a good team.

TCU on the other hand has their best team that I have seen. I think the real insight comes in their tighter games. They look like the Miami's, Nebraska's, FSU's, and Florida teams in those games. When they weren't sharp, timing off, a little lazy on the blocks, bringing a blitzer a half second late while the other team played invigorated, with good play progressions, minimizing mistakes...they still lose and never really threatened TCU. That says a lot. And their last any where near close game was SMU. SMU played extremely hard and smart football and proceeded to lose by 17. And TCU has amazingly gotten better every game since then. Oregon State, when they were full strength, only lost by 9. And that was with a 2 TO advantage. The scoreboard didn't look too bad, but TCU out 1st-downed them 28 to 13..."28 to 13" and TCU pretty much doubled their Time of Possession.

When Miami killed Pitt 31-3, I thought that maybe Pitt wasn't really that good (Utah made hay off Pitt because they were ranked #15 to open the season)...but Notre Dame's beating of Pitt sealed that deal for me.

The Utah game that almost had me a believer was the Iowa State game....Iowa State can give a good game. But the difference in TCU's game with AFA and Utah's game with AFA was a telltale. Utah won by 5...TCU won by 31 and it should have been more.

billybud wrote:When Miami killed Pitt 31-3, I thought that maybe Pitt wasn't really that good (Utah made hay off Pitt because they were ranked #15 to open the season)...but Notre Dame's beating of Pitt sealed that deal for me.

The Utah game that almost had me a believer was the Iowa State game....Iowa State can give a good game. But the difference in TCU's game with AFA and Utah's game with AFA was a telltale. Utah won by 5...TCU won by 31 and it should have been more.

That is it. You can't base an opinion off of one game - a win or loss - you must look at the whole picture. That is why it is hard for anyone to now anything until half the games are played.

billybud wrote:Don't get me wrong, TCU is a great team. But I have had Utah as a pretender for a while. The high rankings were based on being undefeated while maybe beating Air Force by 5 was their best win.

As much as Eric and I go back and forth about transitive wins, I believe that we all compute in how a team plays against another team. When Pitt took Utah to OT in Utah and then was throttled by Miami, I started wondering about Utah. In my PM to Donovan, my trusty voting group partner, I'd whine about Utah being high and that they weren't that good.

TCU may run the table and Boise definitely will. This scenario will get interesting, I think.

Every team is a product of it's schedule. Mr. Billybud, in our conversations, has consistently...and of course we look at that as a questionable virtue...has said Utah is rank, on my list, too high. The discussion this week may well be about Auburn who allowed the scheduled powerhouse Chattanooga (5-4) of the Southern Conference to score. Of course if it is your Homecoming there may be some Freudian reason you want to pummel your opponent. I will now go start preparing my arguments for my comrade in this week's poll. Personally, right now...I would like to see an Auburn - Oregon game and a TCU - Boise rematch. Deep down, I bet TCU would too...because if for some reason TCU makes the game and would win and Boise wins the game of the lesser gods, we still won't know. But then we can always play the circuitous indirect win game...you know...the one developed by the renowned rabid University of Michigan doctoral student, Juyong Park, which has been canonized on this site. (The mere fact this was done gives credence to WoVeU's statement on research schools.)

I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

Spence wrote:I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

I was thinking more along the lines of TCU - Auburn and a Boise State - Oregon game set. Of course the Boise State - Auburn match-up is the only one that gives Boise State an opponent they haven't played.

WoVeU wrote:

Spence wrote:I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

I was thinking more along the lines of TCU - Auburn and a Boise State - Oregon game set. Of course the Boise State - Auburn match-up is the only one that gives Boise State an opponent they haven't played.

as well as beaten...

donovan wrote:

WoVeU wrote:

Spence wrote:I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

I was thinking more along the lines of TCU - Auburn and a Boise State - Oregon game set. Of course the Boise State - Auburn match-up is the only one that gives Boise State an opponent they haven't played.

as well as beaten...

So true...so true....

donovan wrote:

WoVeU wrote:

Spence wrote:I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

I was thinking more along the lines of TCU - Auburn and a Boise State - Oregon game set. Of course the Boise State - Auburn match-up is the only one that gives Boise State an opponent they haven't played.

as well as beaten...

I would rather have Boise State -Auburn and TCU-Oregon because of how they match up. Auburn and TCU are mostly complete teams good on both sides of the ball. Oregon is a great offense, TCU a great defense. Strength against strength. Pitting Boise State against any one but a team from the strongest conference continues the argument. If Boise St. beat Oregon, even though Oregon is good, it doesn't change perception and it doesn't tell the same story is Boise State beats Auburn

Spence wrote:

donovan wrote:

WoVeU wrote:

Spence wrote:I'm just the opposite. I would like to see Auburn - Boise St and TCU - Oregon. I think these games would be good games for the fans and the best match ups available.

I was thinking more along the lines of TCU - Auburn and a Boise State - Oregon game set. Of course the Boise State - Auburn match-up is the only one that gives Boise State an opponent they haven't played.

as well as beaten...

I would rather have Boise State -Auburn and TCU-Oregon because of how they match up. Auburn and TCU are mostly complete teams good on both sides of the ball. Oregon is a great offense, TCU a great defense. Strength against strength. Pitting Boise State against any one but a team from the strongest conference continues the argument. If Boise St. beat Oregon, even though Oregon is good, it doesn't change perception and it doesn't tell the same story is Boise State beats Auburn

Very true. Beating Auburn is the more powerful narrative.

Auburn plays defense too?

The over/under for a Auburn vs Oregon match would have to be 110,