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An interesting piece from the Cato Institute:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10421

And here's Obama in his own words about a single-payer system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

This guy is so phony you can't make this stuff up

True case..happened just last week. A friend, on medicare with supplemental policies, wanted a new primary care physician. He calls six doctors, first question, what insurance do you have..Medicare...we are not taking new medicare patients......now he could write check for most any care he needs, but they did not even ask..He finally gets a physician that takes new medicare....he has been in practice about 28 minutes...not inherently bad...just starting out and trying to build a patient base.......A medical practice can not survive if all patients are on medicare....their treatment is being subsidized by other payers......

We do need a single payer system, open your wallet and pay the bill...and the bill should be within the means of 90 % of all Americans.....True...Real Insurance...spreading the risk....could take care of catrastrophic cases.

As for the President....wrong tree, wrong bark.

donovan wrote:True case..happened just last week. A friend, on medicare with supplemental policies, wanted a new primary care physician. He calls six doctors, first question, what insurance do you have..Medicare...we are not taking new medicare patients......now he could write check for most any care he needs, but they did not even ask..He finally gets a physician that takes new medicare....he has been in practice about 28 minutes...not inherently bad...just starting out and trying to build a patient base.......A medical practice can not survive if all patients are on medicare....their treatment is being subsidized by other payers......

We do need a single payer system, open your wallet and pay the bill...and the bill should be within the means of 90 % of all Americans.....True...Real Insurance...spreading the risk....could take care of catrastrophic cases.

As for the President....wrong tree, wrong bark.

I agree. I have insurance with an $8,000 deductable, meaning I pay everything out of pocket unless we have something catastrophic, then we have something to fall back on. This is how insurance was meant to be to start with, at least before it became a bargining chip in corporate salary negotiations. I had a doctor that lived down the road from me when I was a kid. His wife made us cookies, he knew us all by name and came to watch us when we played sports in school. He charged the going rate, I don't remember my parents ever giving him insurance info. They just paid their bill. I still do that. If everyone did it maybe my daughter's insulin pump wouldn't have cost quite $6,700. I figure at least a third of the cost is built in because of the insurance adjustment, and probably another third for those who don't pay.

If everyone paid their own bills the prices would go down because doctors wouldn't be setting prices to a faceless system, they would be setting prices to you. Doctors also should be able to practice without being sued for not following a government mandated "standard of care". I don't have a problem with a doctor getting sued for negligence, but not for every legit complication of that procedure. Sometimes a doctor does everything right and you still get a bad result. Sometimes people get infections in hospitals. Sometimes when something bad happens it is not anyone's fault.

Spence, silly you. If something is wrong, there's always someone to blame

Just wait until you see how much this free healthcare is going to cost......there is always someone to blame...get a mirror and we will see who is to blame.

donovan wrote:Just wait until you see how much this free healthcare is going to cost......there is always someone to blame...get a mirror and we will see who is to blame.

Exactly.

I don't think the mirror would show me who is to blame.

Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings...but I often say, "I feel like the last American" most everywhere I turn!

An American man, from the days of yore worked!

People don't want to work...they aren't responsible for themselves...everything is someones fault...they feel bad, sick even, they need help. I honestly think most Americans are sick from their life style and/or want attention or prescription drugs. My body hurts everyday...I need to go to the doctor...but I am neck deep in work. It doesn't do me too much good to go to the doctor to feel better, knowing I'll need 10 referrals and 6 weeks to get anything going, and knowing the whole time I have work piled up. (I'll get set up sometime in the next few months, by tomorrow I'll get my spa hooked up, and alter the sensor wiring so I can dip in 115 degree jetted water...I will feel much better then.) Many others just go, straight to the doc or emergency room...hey...they got the free time! They must be ill, they don't feel well. Get a job, find some responsibilities, help people, get a good hobby that will engage your mind...go get that script filled!

I am just tired of all the lazy, candy, "butts" in this country. Somebody had better wake-up! Don't talk about ANY goals but people working. We can't afford half of the programs we have with about a 1/3 of the country working. You simply can't do it!

Oh, and I am tired of insurance, and safety, and protections. These have piled up so high that what they take is not worth what they render!!!!!
I don't know how many of these clown jobs we have at work Safety This, Quality that, Something Coordinator, or Controller. Even the important side jobs we need to make products like Accounting and Sales....they add all these layers to and people who end-up with some slack jobs.

So we got about a 1/3 of the people working and 1/3 of those jobs are BS non-core jobs, parasitic requirements due to the years of having all these lawyers and lobbyists running this country! How absurd, and I am now pretty sure anything short of Revolution will not change our current state!

I remember America
I saw her once
It was long ago and far away
But I think I saw her.

Someone said give me Liberty or give me death.
Well, all around me I see death.
And all around I see liberty subdued.
Someone got what they asked for.

It isn't the people who don't work that keep voting these idiots into office. Those people rarely participate in anything. It is the collective us. We keep puting them back in. We, meaning conservatives, elected a group of Republicans to office that didn't adhere to our fiscal values. We focus to much on moral values. I am not against morals, but try as you might, you can't legislate morals. People are going to do what they do for the most part.

Now we have a group of progressives in office. That is our fault as well for failing to offer a good choice in the last political race. McCain follows a progressive agenda as well, at least politically. Most people live their lives in a conservative manor. They work for a living, they pay their bills, and they raise their family. Most people follow the law. We are the ones who are to blame for all of the governments problems, because "We the people" keep asking our federal politicians to give us stuff. We keep asking all are politicians to give us stuff. Stuff costs money, someone has to pay. We absolutely have the government that we deserve.

WoVeU, I will comment later on your belief you are not part of the problem...but for now...I would suggest that you research....ask...something...before you "dip" in 115 degree F water. I do not know what ails you nor would I give medical advice on this board....I would just suggest that you look at that temperature before you do that. Nothing, in my opinion, wrong with hydro therapy...extreme temperatures...plenty wrong. There are reported deaths for temperatures of 110 degrees.

donovan wrote:WoVeU, I will comment later on your belief you are not part of the problem...but for now...I would suggest that you research....ask...something...before you "dip" in 115 degree F water. I do not know what ails you nor would I give medical advice on this board....I would just suggest that you look at that temperature before you do that. Nothing, in my opinion, wrong with hydro therapy...extreme temperatures...plenty wrong. There are reported deaths for temperatures of 110 degrees.

I appreciate your concern...and for most Donovan you are absolutely correct. I was in my last one at 116 F. I have driven in a car in 100F with the heater on for an hour. I can just really take high temps. Which is odd to me...I sweat like a pig at 78F. The biggest thing for me is the stretch it allows...it is like I can get tendons and ligaments and the connected back where they belong. I move a good bit and stand up and bend over every 5 minutes. If I feel tipsy, time to get out!

Spence, I to have a high deductible at a max of $7000/year out of pocket (It's actually a $3000 a year deductible) with the co-pay kicking in after that.

I am fine with this, and would greatly appreciate those power hungry communists in Washington staying out of my life.

That is all.

It all boils down to first dollar coverage versus insurance. We no longer have health insurance in this country, we have this first dollar coverage insanity.

I hear all the banter about the President's plan and how no one can understands it. Not even sure he has a plan yet, I think all the talk is about a congressional plan. The other side is most people can not understand their private policies. There is a general attitude among many Americans that there is an entitlement to health care. I believe that is true. I do not want to live in a land of plenty where pain and suffering that can be alleviated goes untouched. If an illegal alien comes into a medical facility it is easier to say, send them home, but there is an immediate need and I for one am not going to waste time taking some political stand, they are going to get treated. It is always different if you are the one that has to show them the door rather than just talking about it. Is there a solution, yes there is. Get government out of medicine in its entirety and in about six months the whole problem clears up. Government is only a vehicle to facilitate the needs of the private citizenry, not to dictate the wishes of those deeming themselves to be morally superior to the masses.

We have two in place examples of government run health care. One is Medicare and the other is the Veteran's Administration. The defense rests.

I am an HMO member...last summer, I had to have a nuclear angiogram and other tests...my out of pocket? $35

My wife and I would be broke if I had to pay the actual costs of my health care over the past three years...

But that is insurance. This is what insurance does, it spreads the risk.

You, your employer paid into a policy and you get the benefits. Nothing wrong with that. You get whatever the docs deem necessary for your recovery as part of the policy. Everyone in America deserves that treatment...the only question is...how should we pay for it?

My former employer does not pay insurance premiums after retirement...I pay it..but $12,000 a year for two single coverages is steep for the average retiree...or working guy for that matter