McChrystal

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donovan
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McChrystal

Postby donovan » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:49 pm

History will, and probably should, repeat itself. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, the Military can not disparage their commanders, right or wrong. Military leaders can not set policy. Lincoln had McClelllan, who would not carry out his orders and Truman had MacArthur who would not quit fighting. Maybe we should be care of Rob Roy descendants chosen as generals.

I know there is a football metaphor in all of this...but that would tire me.
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Re: McChrystal

Postby Derek » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:32 pm

I agree. A general cannot publicly question the leadership, however pathetic that leadership is. And the administration's leadership is utterly embarrassing.

I felt the same way when there were former military officials under Bush that publicly made statements. You just can't do that, retired or not.

There is a general lack of civility in this country, and our enemy's celebrate that. And the vitriol was never worse than when Bush was President.

Having said all of that...the general said what most military and former military (such as myself) feel. That this President has no strategy to do anything, unless it's using an un-constitutional process to pass bills that 60+ percent of the public don't want. :evil:
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Re: McChrystal

Postby Spence » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:36 pm

I agree. In this country the military is not a separate branch of government and they should not be. No matter what you happen to think about your boss - that isn't something you talk to anyone about. It is his job to question policy if he feels it is wrong, but you do not question his policy in a magazine - you do it face to face and no matter what you uphold his final decision or resign if you feel you can not.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Spence » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:49 am

This guy, it seems, has always been a loose cannon. Makes you wonder how he got this job in the first place. It seems his main qualifiying point is the fact that he voted for the president. :roll:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:09 am

Spence wrote:This guy, it seems, has always been a loose cannon. Makes you wonder how he got this job in the first place. It seems his main qualifiying point is the fact that he voted for the president. :roll:


Well there's the catch right there. I wouldn't blame the administration for firing McChrystal. There is precedent for that in Truman and MacArthur.

Nevertheless, the Obama administration is a mess. Even regardless of policy, Barack Obama has in my opinion no leadership skill whatsoever. As Romney pointed out in a piece concerning the oil spill, Obama is a politician at a time when we need leaders. His answer to everything is campaigning. Tell us what he wants, then tell us again... never listening to the people, or analyzing the situation at hand. It worked for him in 2008... not so good since then.

So as inappropriate as McChrystal's statements were, he was only repeating what a fair share of the country and probably an even larger share of the military can see for themselves. Given that, who could the administration get to replace him that is both a competent leader and a political supporter of the President's party...

In the end its a two way screw up. Yes you need a President that knows how to lead, but you also need a military commander to have the common sense to shut up when Rolling Stone comes asking questions...

Is it still to soon for everybody to see why David Petraeus was a good general and George W. Bush wasn't all that bad?

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Spence » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:48 pm

Oh, I think the guy needs fired as well. You don't go blowing in the boss outside of school.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:06 pm

The administration is replacing him with Petraeus... Could actually be a good move. Its kind of a demotion for Petraeus, but there is no denying he's the best man for the job.

Its very interesting considering the virulent attitude the President's party has shown the man. "General Betray Us." Hillary even outright called him a liar. How far we've come since then. He's going to solidify Republican support for the ongoing war effort, but the President's far-left base must not be happy.

Anyway, now I pray for General Petraeus and the military. He is taking on yet another pretty big challenge. The problems that McChrystal foolishly blabbed about are still there to contend with. Fighting terrorists and DC bureaucrats at the same time can't be an easy job.

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Spence » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:56 pm

He will just blame anything that goes wrong on Petraeus and take credit for what goes right when clearly he either doesn't care or doesn't have a clue what is going on with the war. Lots of arrogance out of this admin.
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Re: McChrystal

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:50 pm

I won't disagree with you, and that attitude clearly isn't limited to the war. That's what happens when a President is elected based on a campaign slogan, identity politics, and a cult of personality, rather than seeking the most competent individual for the job.

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Spence » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:07 pm

We elect celebrities now not leaders. It amazes me that this country keeps electing all these idiots to office. It says more about us then it does about them I guess.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Eric » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:06 pm

Spence wrote:He will just blame anything that goes wrong on Petraeus and take credit for what goes right when clearly he either doesn't care or doesn't have a clue what is going on with the war. Lots of arrogance out of this admin.


Like his "strongarming" of BP? BP was going to dish the funds out to those hurt in the Gulf anyway, for PR relations if anything else.

Obama's administration is like a Principal's Office. "I disapprove of something you're doing, so you're going to have to come to my office so we can have a little chat about this." He did it to McChrystal, Jan Brewer, BP execs (who he said he didn't want to talk to in the first place), the Beer Summit, etc. Not that you're not allowed to meet with anybody to talk about important issues, but I guess it's the phony facade of control that irks me the most about it.
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Re: McChrystal

Postby Eric » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:07 pm

This administration is a colossal failure. Now let's wait for the Republican's turn in 2012 to mess up again.
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Re: McChrystal

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:49 pm

Eric wrote:
Spence wrote:He will just blame anything that goes wrong on Petraeus and take credit for what goes right when clearly he either doesn't care or doesn't have a clue what is going on with the war. Lots of arrogance out of this admin.


Like his "strongarming" of BP? BP was going to dish the funds out to those hurt in the Gulf anyway, for PR relations if anything else.

Obama's administration is like a Principal's Office. "I disapprove of something you're doing, so you're going to have to come to my office so we can have a little chat about this." He did it to McChrystal, Jan Brewer, BP execs (who he said he didn't want to talk to in the first place), the Beer Summit, etc. Not that you're not allowed to meet with anybody to talk about important issues, but I guess it's the phony facade of control that irks me the most about it.


Well Obama's approach to the BP disaster has gone from accomplishing nothing to actively hampering relief efforts. I guess since arrogant King Barack has no leadership ability, he can't stand the idea of Gov. Jindal exercising his.

As for the AZ immigration law, it has now come to light that Obama is refusing to address border security in order to extort support for his amnesty bill... Given that, would it be any surprise to find that he is destroying efforts in the Gulf until he can get Cap and trade passed? Never let a crisis go to waste...

I had figured Obama would be a colossal disaster, and between arrogance and incompetence, he's been so much worse. Republicans are going to sweep this year. When that happened in '94 Clinton at least had the common sense to move to the center enough to save his administration. With the indifference to public opinion that Obama has shown, I can't see him doing the same...

Republicans in 2012 could screw things up again, but I can't see how it could be worse than this. We just have to be smart enough to nominate and elect a competent fiscal conservative, and not just another celebrity.

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Re: McChrystal

Postby Eric » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:03 am

Ron Paul is about the only "fiscal conservative" on the map right now. No other nominee would seriously consider stopping to spend money. Electing somebody like Paul is trying to work within the system to change the system's goals, which is increasing power. One way or another, it's just not going to happen.
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Re: McChrystal

Postby donovan » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:28 am

Eric wrote:Ron Paul is about the only "fiscal conservative" on the map right now. No other nominee would seriously consider stopping to spend money. Electing somebody like Paul is trying to work within the system to change the system's goals, which is increasing power. One way or another, it's just not going to happen.


I think you are correct. He subscribes to the Austrian Economics philosophy and and has excellent libertarian,(note the small l) ideals. The problem with Paul is electability. He is a great "clean sheet of paper" man, but we do not nor will we have a clean sheet of paper. Right now, in my opinion, the best chance for change is Mitt Romney. I think he stands a reasonable chance of not being sucked into the establishment as most politicians. We need radical change, more of the same is not going to make one iota of difference. Right now....as opposed as they are and with the disparaging verbiage between them, I would for the sake of discussion suggest a Romney-Huckabee ticket.
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