Arkansas v. Vanderbilt

[Cane from the Bend]

As soon as the tip of a finger touches the ball you are fair game....no fair catch signal, so you do not have to let the receiver cleanly catch the ball.

Actually, as a kick return defender, you must give the return man room to catch the ball. The defender failed to do so. Unlike a pass reception, you are not permitted to make contact until the receiver has the ball either, in hand, or slipped free. Not as the ball is sliding out of hand, only after.

It was an illegal hit; head first & early . . . the celebration which followed was the trifecta penalty . . . the attitude expose`was just the icing glazed to dripping off the pastry.

As for the declining of the penalty; I believe the Vanderbilt coaches thought the 15 yards would have been enforced from the point of contact. The refs probably did not clarify the extent of the penalty to them, as being added to the end of the play.

Notice, after the hit, the ball bounces forward, a Vandy player picks it up, runs many yards, and then the play is whistled dead when he is tackled.

If they assumed the 15 yards was from where the return man was hit, the run after the hit was further down the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDEHflpbzko

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[Dossenator]

The penalty was declined by Vandy. After the hit a Vandy player picked up the ball and advanced it 24 yards. They allowed the ball to be advanced.

You are correct about allowing the ball to be caught first.

The rules for punt returns have been plastered all over AR message boards...and the Vandy player should have been flagged as well. If you put your arm up and do not properly call for a fair catch (waving the hand more than once constitutes a fair catch) then it is a 5 yard penalty and the ball can not be advanced by either team.

Also, the celebration after the hit has been blown out of proportion. He went and celebrated with a teammate away from the Vandy player...believing he had hit a player with the ball. He did not hover over the guy, and to be honest was oblivious to the Vandy player still laying on the field hurting.

Now his behavior on the sideline and as he was being removed from the stadium was atrocious.

Wade came out today and spoke with the media. He gave an apology...and you can clearly tell that no one wrote his apology for him. Petrino said he spoke with Wade, and Wade honestly thought the guy had the ball when he hit him. If you watch the video the Vandy player puts his hand in the air, drops his hand, and then runs forward (several steps) right into the hit. I am not trying to condone the hit but that is what he feels like happened. This kid is not a dirty player. This is the only time all year he has been flagged in this manner. He is the gunner on kick off and punt returns...he is usually the first guy there and hits hard. In 8 games this year, I have seen no reason to believe he has a poor attitude, or is out to hurt someone. On this particular play it was bad judgement on his part. I am sure he will learn from this, and I expect him to have an attitude adjustment (especially after hearing Petrino refer to his behavior on the sideline and how that has been addressed). At the time, he became heated for his ejection (which he felt was unwarranted), and then lost his cool.

[billybud]

I think that the hit itself was just one of those misjudgements...it was the behaviour that drew everyone's eye.

It was, as Doss and I have posted, an invalid fair catch signal and should have been a dead ball at the spot where touched....there is no penalty in the NCAA (there is in HS) for an invalid fair catch signal, the ball is just dead at the spot. Then a penalty against the kicking team for interference with the kick returner.

[donovan]

these things happen quickly and most of these situations are not intentional, though still violations. The aftermath is always the issue. Lot of pressure on kids playing before thousand of fans cheering and putting them in situations that few get to be in. I have gotten upset before. But mercy can not rob justice, so off with his head.

[Cane from the Bend]

Fair catch called or no, the return man must have the opportunity to catch the ball. He was hit before the ball even arrived.

If you notice, Marquel Wade was mouthing off over on the sideline after being flagged, and before being ejected.

The Vanderbilt player could not have been flagged for a penalty for extending the play, because the referees did not whistle the ball dead until after the tackle was made down field.

The play happened as it did. The penalty called was the right one. The ejection may have been sketchy. But the refs diffused a potential brawl by making that judgment call.

Players were being restrained by the coaching staff on the Vanderbilt sideline. The crowd was up in arms adding to the tension brewing. Even if a scuffle had not occurred right then, one may have erupted as the game continued . You could say he was ejected as a sacrifice to ensure stability of play . . . and yet again, from the referees' perspective, maybe it was a little of the jawing he did after being penalized. It made him look less remorseful, and more self righteous.

Whether his ejection was justifiable is moot, as the game is over.

Billybud is for the most part correct.

In the event of the ball having touched the return man, the refs should have gotten together once all had settled down. Then they should have called it a dead ball foul.

However, the contact happened before the ball arrived, and the return man never touched the ball. Hence, the play was live.

It would have been the same if the return man had signaled for a fair catch, and the muffed the punt. The ball would have been live. The hit would still have been a personal foul for leading with the helmet.

The mistake the refs made, was not clarifying that the 15 yards should have been tacked on after the yardage gained where the play was whistled dead.

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[billybud]

Nope...not quite right

The ball can not be advanced after an invalid fair catch signal has been made...the refs should have blown the whistle and the play was dead....Sooo...the refs had to have ruled a valid fair catch signal and interference with the catch (flags were thrown a plenty) and then, because the ball was advanced, the 15 yards from the spot was not instituted (and fair catch interference is 15 yards from the spot of the foul).

In FSU's game Saturday...Greg Reid pointed at the ground where the ball was rolling so that his blockers wouldn't get hit by the ball. He scooped it up and then ran it in for a long TD. The play was called back to the spot where he made a invalid faircatch signal. Bad call, I think, because his arm was at waist level...but

[donovan]

NCAA football rules 2-7-2 and 2-7-3 define a valid and invalid fair-catch signal. They read as follows:

Valid Signal
ARTICLE 2. A valid signal is a signal given by a player of Team B who has obviously signaled his intention by extending one hand only clearly above his head and waving that hand from side to side of his body more than once.

Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B that does not meet the requirements of a valid signal (Rule 6-5-3).

Rule 6-5-2 defines the penalty for attempting to advance the ball after a fair catch signal (emphasis supplied):

No Advance
ARTICLE 2. No Team B player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after a valid or invalid fair catch signal by any Team B player (A.R. 6-5-2-I-IV).
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S21].

Team A’s scrimmage kick is rolling beyond the neutral zone when B17 alerts his teammates to stay away from the ball by a "get away" signal at his waist or below. RULING: Invalid signal. The ball is dead by rule when either team recovers.

[billybud]

Article 3a

"A catch after a invalid signal is not a fair catch and the ball is dead where caught or recovered." (there is no penalty for Article 3...just a dead ball)
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The Article 2 (advancement after valid or invalid fair catch signal) does have the five yard penalty as you posted.

The interference call penalty is 15 yards from the spot of the foul under 6-4-1.

Still difficult to make sense of the ball placement in the Arkansas game...

[Dossenator]

The SEC has suspended Wade from the South Carolina game as well. What a joke and a bunch of hipocrites.

I was all for Petrino sitting the kid for his actions on the sideline and on his way out of the stadium (the manner in which he was talking with the AR coach escorting him away). However, I am a little perplexed why the SEC would suspend Wade from his next game. He was flagged, and was ejected from the Vandy game. There are hits as bad or worse every week in college football (including the SEC) and players are not suspended for these hits. It's not like he threw a punch. The Vandy coach came out today and said he did not feel like Wade was out to hurt anyone. My goodness, last year Nick Fairly for Auburn played the dirtiest football I have seen in a long time (spearing QB's in the back after plays, body slamming QB's, etc.). He got flags for his antics but never was suspended by the SEC. Double standards.

Here is a pic of a hit Tyler Wilson took by a Vandy defender on Saturday and this play was not even flagged (same game as Wade hit):

[donovan]

I think you are right, Doss. This is form over substance. Not good in accounting nor in life. Schools take care of on field issues. Not the conference. If a conference feels the school is not adhering to the code of conduct, or whatever it is that seems to be the issue, then they need to take it up with the school, not punish the kid. I think the SEC has been listening to me too much, "off with their head." Now let's have the trial.

[Dossenator]

I think you are right, Doss. This is form over substance. Not good in accounting nor in life. Schools take care of on field issues. Not the conference. If a conference feels the school is not adhering to the code of conduct, or whatever it is that seems to be the issue, then they need to take it up with the school, not punish the kid. I think the SEC has been listening to me too much, "off with their head." Now let's have the trial.

The kid was all ready punished with a flag and missing a big chunk of the Vandy game. I am sure he was disciplined in house for his actions as well. Now you punish the kid again. I will be expecting every tackle like this in the SEC to result in a flag, an ejection, and then a suspension from the next game. That's not going to happen though.

You know this officiating crew was the same crew that officiated the Ark vs Florida game a couple years ago. After that game, the crew was suspended for two weeks for their multiple bogus calls (all aiding Florida who went on to win the NC). This crew should never be allowed to officiate an Ark game again. Curles is the head official with this crew.

[RazorHawk]

I think you are right, Doss. This is form over substance. Not good in accounting nor in life. Schools take care of on field issues. Not the conference. If a conference feels the school is not adhering to the code of conduct, or whatever it is that seems to be the issue, then they need to take it up with the school, not punish the kid. I think the SEC has been listening to me too much, "off with their head." Now let's have the trial.

The kid was all ready punished with a flag and missing a big chunk of the Vandy game. I am sure he was disciplined in house for his actions as well. Now you punish the kid again. I will be expecting every tackle like this in the SEC to result in a flag, an ejection, and then a suspension from the next game. That's not going to happen though.

You know this officiating crew was the same crew that officiated the Ark vs Florida game a couple years ago. After that game, the crew was suspended for two weeks for their multiple bogus calls (all aiding Florida who went on to win the NC). This crew should never be allowed to officiate an Ark game again. Curles is the head official with this crew.

Normally, I disagree with your criticism of the officials when it involves the Hogs; however, in this case, I think you absolutely correct.

[billybud]

I think that the conference is in the business of "message sending"....

And while the athlete and Arkansas fans will be upset, I'll bet that some receive the message. And, you guys are right, Fairly should have been suspended last year. The tape didn't lie. He was a dirty, dirty player.

[Dossenator]

The PAC 12 just suspended a USC player for a hit in the Stanford game. It came on Stanfords game tying drive (on a 3rd and long). It was a terrible throw by Luck and the defender hit the receiver after the ball passed. He was flagged and it kept the drive alive...Stanford more than likely loses without this penalty. This suspension is crazier than the AR suspension. Just crazy.

Are we headed towards touch or flag football.

[WoVeU]

Fairly was a disgrace and shouldn't have been playing after about game 4 or 5. "Fairly" until now the irony had eluded me!

*In my day we'd have signed Fairly up if he pulled one of those stunts against me or one of my guys. And my flag had already been raised to his dirt. He'd have gotten double cut more than a few times.