Arkansas v. Vanderbilt

[WoVeU]

The PAC 12 just suspended a USC player for a hit in the Stanford game. It came on Stanfords game tying drive (on a 3rd and long). It was a terrible throw by Luck and the defender hit the receiver after the ball passed. He was flagged and it kept the drive alive...Stanford more than likely loses without this penalty. This suspension is crazier than the AR suspension. Just crazy.

Are we headed towards touch or flag football.

It is now a high crime to express or take any action that might suggest a testosterone level more than 15% above that of a 11 year old girl! While watching TV today, I noticed many "men" that just spoke with and used butter and lilac, including Nick Saban, all men in positions where I'd have never thought this could happen. I give myself 3 years max to be able to coexist in this society.

[Dossenator]

The PAC 12 just suspended a USC player for a hit in the Stanford game. It came on Stanfords game tying drive (on a 3rd and long). It was a terrible throw by Luck and the defender hit the receiver after the ball passed. He was flagged and it kept the drive alive...Stanford more than likely loses without this penalty. This suspension is crazier than the AR suspension. Just crazy.

Are we headed towards touch or flag football.

It is now a high crime to express or take any action that might suggest a testosterone level more than 15% above that of a 11 year old girl! While watching TV today, I noticed many "men" that just spoke with and used butter and lilac, including Nick Saban, all men in positions where I'd have never thought this could happen. I give myself 3 years max to be able to coexist in this society.

I hear you WoVeU.

Here is video of the USC vs Stanford hit in question.
1: The ball is coming in and the defender has started the tackle before it is not caught.
2: Defender turns his head away and hits receiver with his shoulder.
3: Looks to be aiming at the receivers chest.
4: Receiver falls down into the hit...causing the defenders shoulder to hit the receiver facemask.

Hard hit....and I see why the flag was thrown (I guess). But I don't see why a suspension is warranted.
Video: http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbs ... 8/33071132

[WoVeU]

We all talked much on how difficult it was going to be to get these calls right! It is just crazy right now!

Now for this play in the USC game the flag I can see because the defender was late by more than a step. (The more than a step is important to me.) No suspension should be given.
Now for the Ark case, if I was Petrino I would be ticked! Why? Not that the kid doesn't deserve to be punished in some form, but he should be given the opportunity to effect it in his way. (Could he add to the punishment...of course. But if his judgment for penalty was equal to or less than that already handed down???? *Authority stripped, responsibility still largely intact. The NCAA, Conferences, and not even the University Presidents should be punishing players for incidents within the sport. The Head Coach and by extension the other coaches should handle this. If actions in sports warrants action beyond the coach and his staff, then they should call the coach to the carpet when they have gotten to the point that his department has problems that are not being addressed...and they can punish the coach. (I still believe in chain of command and know its value first hand.)

But this is the problem in society now and at the work place. Everybody gets their hand in things and it just serves to disperse leadership...and no one is leading. I think much is due to the soap opera love of all too many people...and they want to be in on the "greasy" stuff! Like a school can issue plenty of punishment to a kid (mostly noneffective) and the parent may not wish to pile-on or disagree in large part. But they still want to point to the parents for not being responsible. Again, great authority with little responsibility! It is in everything say and allegedly want one thing but do another. One of my modern favorites, Diversity! Work places talk up and down and round and round about diversity! But then they constantly give training on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, and politics (things that makes folks "different".) Even when something is not fully forbidden to be discussed, it is at least "frowned upon"...so how in the world can diversity be a wonderful thing, or even good thing....seems to be a good foundation for problems!!!

[billybud]

This hit in the FSU game, which drew a penalty, looks similar to the USC hit....the QB was knocked out of the game.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_asset ... TY-HIT.gif

Penalty assessed, drive kept alive...no suspension crapola...It looks like the ACC is taking the stance that "hits happen". Unless it is an obvious head hunting play and malice seems intended, there have not been suspensions.

FSU's TD against Maryland was called back, FSU penalized on this hit. Although Greg Reid was not suspended, he was warned about "launching" into the head and shoulder area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bjJBnKVIc

[donovan]

I do not see this is all that complicated. Intentional spearing is a penalty and ejection. Unintentional head on helmet to body, spearing, contact is a penalty, play ball. Bad dead ball behavior is a penalty and can result in ejection. Like all calls, subjective...sometime they get it right and sometimes after 545,344,678 million reviews, there 545,344 679 opinions.

[Cane from the Bend]

In the case of Arkansas' Wade, I agree, he should not have been penalized further for an isolated incident.

The SEC's extension to the infraction is more of an indication in which they are assuming a near totalitarian leadership role with regards to competition.

This is similar to recent comments regarding the NCAA on regulations. A governing body who has as much authority as the member schools & respective conferences allow. They push a little more, restrict a little more, and soon have complete control.

The same sort of ideology looks to be conveyed here. Only, being handed down from the conference to a school, rather than the NCAA.

Factions inside factions, if you will.

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On-the-other-hand;

The telling story in TJ McDonald's case ( safety who is suspended for one half of USC's game against upcoming opponent Colorado ), is that the conference is stepping in where they believe Kiffin is not making clear that that these hits should not take place.

Larry Scott, Pac-12 commissioner: “While Mr. McDonald was appropriately penalized on the field, I have deemed it necessary to add a half-game suspension ... This process was part of our weekly review of all targeting and unnecessary roughness hits. It was the fourth such penalty of the 2011 season for Mr. McDonald, who was whistled three times for similar fouls against Arizona State last month. He was suspended because he had been previously warned about illegal hits above the shoulders on defenseless opponents. In order to protect our student-athletes, it is imperative that we enforce these penalties for the safety of the game."

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In this for-instance, I understand the intervention.

If you have previously cited said athlete, and this competitor disregards the warning, action is the next logical step.

It is merely a one half sit out. Not an entire game suspension. And thus, I believe the message the Pac-12 is attempting to send would be, take us seriously.

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[warrriorsfan808]

The penalty was declined by Vandy. After the hit a Vandy player picked up the ball and advanced it 24 yards. They allowed the ball to be advanced.

You are correct about allowing the ball to be caught first.

The rules for punt returns have been plastered all over AR message boards...and the Vandy player should have been flagged as well. If you put your arm up and do not properly call for a fair catch (waving the hand more than once constitutes a fair catch) then it is a 5 yard penalty and the ball can not be advanced by either team.

Also, the celebration after the hit has been blown out of proportion. He went and celebrated with a teammate away from the Vandy player...believing he had hit a player with the ball. He did not hover over the guy, and to be honest was oblivious to the Vandy player still laying on the field hurting.

Now his behavior on the sideline and as he was being removed from the stadium was atrocious.

Wade came out today and spoke with the media. He gave an apology...and you can clearly tell that no one wrote his apology for him. Petrino said he spoke with Wade, and Wade honestly thought the guy had the ball when he hit him. If you watch the video the Vandy player puts his hand in the air, drops his hand, and then runs forward (several steps) right into the hit. I am not trying to condone the hit but that is what he feels like happened. This kid is not a dirty player. This is the only time all year he has been flagged in this manner. He is the gunner on kick off and punt returns...he is usually the first guy there and hits hard. In 8 games this year, I have seen no reason to believe he has a poor attitude, or is out to hurt someone. On this particular play it was bad judgement on his part. I am sure he will learn from this, and I expect him to have an attitude adjustment (especially after hearing Petrino refer to his behavior on the sideline and how that has been addressed). At the time, he became heated for his ejection (which he felt was unwarranted), and then lost his cool.

This fair catch call is a "no brainier" the punt returner clearly raises his hand over his head. The hit was a fraction early (interference with a fair catch), so I guess that would make this a dead ball personal foul, 15 yard penalty, and play on, with no ejection for the unfortunate hit on the punt returner, because the young man was not being "thuggish" until after the ejection.

[RazorHawk]

The penalty was declined by Vandy. After the hit a Vandy player picked up the ball and advanced it 24 yards. They allowed the ball to be advanced.

You are correct about allowing the ball to be caught first.

The rules for punt returns have been plastered all over AR message boards...and the Vandy player should have been flagged as well. If you put your arm up and do not properly call for a fair catch (waving the hand more than once constitutes a fair catch) then it is a 5 yard penalty and the ball can not be advanced by either team.

Also, the celebration after the hit has been blown out of proportion. He went and celebrated with a teammate away from the Vandy player...believing he had hit a player with the ball. He did not hover over the guy, and to be honest was oblivious to the Vandy player still laying on the field hurting.

Now his behavior on the sideline and as he was being removed from the stadium was atrocious.

Wade came out today and spoke with the media. He gave an apology...and you can clearly tell that no one wrote his apology for him. Petrino said he spoke with Wade, and Wade honestly thought the guy had the ball when he hit him. If you watch the video the Vandy player puts his hand in the air, drops his hand, and then runs forward (several steps) right into the hit. I am not trying to condone the hit but that is what he feels like happened. This kid is not a dirty player. This is the only time all year he has been flagged in this manner. He is the gunner on kick off and punt returns...he is usually the first guy there and hits hard. In 8 games this year, I have seen no reason to believe he has a poor attitude, or is out to hurt someone. On this particular play it was bad judgement on his part. I am sure he will learn from this, and I expect him to have an attitude adjustment (especially after hearing Petrino refer to his behavior on the sideline and how that has been addressed). At the time, he became heated for his ejection (which he felt was unwarranted), and then lost his cool.

This fair catch call is a "no brainier" the punt returner clearly raises his hand over his head. The hit was a fraction early (interference with a fair catch), so I guess that would make this a dead ball personal foul, 15 yard penalty, and play on, with no ejection for the unfortunate hit on the punt returner, because the young man was not being "thuggish" until after the ejection.

And his "thuggish" after the call is that he felt the ejection was wrong, as he thought the receiver actually had the ball and he had just made a good play. This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

[Spence]

The penalty was declined by Vandy. After the hit a Vandy player picked up the ball and advanced it 24 yards. They allowed the ball to be advanced.

You are correct about allowing the ball to be caught first.

The rules for punt returns have been plastered all over AR message boards...and the Vandy player should have been flagged as well. If you put your arm up and do not properly call for a fair catch (waving the hand more than once constitutes a fair catch) then it is a 5 yard penalty and the ball can not be advanced by either team.

Also, the celebration after the hit has been blown out of proportion. He went and celebrated with a teammate away from the Vandy player...believing he had hit a player with the ball. He did not hover over the guy, and to be honest was oblivious to the Vandy player still laying on the field hurting.

Now his behavior on the sideline and as he was being removed from the stadium was atrocious.

Wade came out today and spoke with the media. He gave an apology...and you can clearly tell that no one wrote his apology for him. Petrino said he spoke with Wade, and Wade honestly thought the guy had the ball when he hit him. If you watch the video the Vandy player puts his hand in the air, drops his hand, and then runs forward (several steps) right into the hit. I am not trying to condone the hit but that is what he feels like happened. This kid is not a dirty player. This is the only time all year he has been flagged in this manner. He is the gunner on kick off and punt returns...he is usually the first guy there and hits hard. In 8 games this year, I have seen no reason to believe he has a poor attitude, or is out to hurt someone. On this particular play it was bad judgement on his part. I am sure he will learn from this, and I expect him to have an attitude adjustment (especially after hearing Petrino refer to his behavior on the sideline and how that has been addressed). At the time, he became heated for his ejection (which he felt was unwarranted), and then lost his cool.

This fair catch call is a "no brainier" the punt returner clearly raises his hand over his head. The hit was a fraction early (interference with a fair catch), so I guess that would make this a dead ball personal foul, 15 yard penalty, and play on, with no ejection for the unfortunate hit on the punt returner, because the young man was not being "thuggish" until after the ejection.

And his "thuggish" after the call is that he felt the ejection was wrong, as he thought the receiver actually had the ball and he had just made a good play. This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

Always does.

[billybud]

If you peruse the penalty for Interference with a player attempting to receive the ball...it calls for "disqualification" if the offense is a flagrant foul. Also initiating contact with a "defenseless player" with the crown of the helmet is an ejection if judged to be a flagrant foul. Rule 9-1-3; 9-1-4.

[Cane from the Bend]

The penalty was declined by Vandy. After the hit a Vandy player picked up the ball and advanced it 24 yards. They allowed the ball to be advanced.

You are correct about allowing the ball to be caught first.

The rules for punt returns have been plastered all over AR message boards...and the Vandy player should have been flagged as well. If you put your arm up and do not properly call for a fair catch (waving the hand more than once constitutes a fair catch) then it is a 5 yard penalty and the ball can not be advanced by either team.

Also, the celebration after the hit has been blown out of proportion. He went and celebrated with a teammate away from the Vandy player...believing he had hit a player with the ball. He did not hover over the guy, and to be honest was oblivious to the Vandy player still laying on the field hurting.

Now his behavior on the sideline and as he was being removed from the stadium was atrocious.

Wade came out today and spoke with the media. He gave an apology...and you can clearly tell that no one wrote his apology for him. Petrino said he spoke with Wade, and Wade honestly thought the guy had the ball when he hit him. If you watch the video the Vandy player puts his hand in the air, drops his hand, and then runs forward (several steps) right into the hit. I am not trying to condone the hit but that is what he feels like happened. This kid is not a dirty player. This is the only time all year he has been flagged in this manner. He is the gunner on kick off and punt returns...he is usually the first guy there and hits hard. In 8 games this year, I have seen no reason to believe he has a poor attitude, or is out to hurt someone. On this particular play it was bad judgement on his part. I am sure he will learn from this, and I expect him to have an attitude adjustment (especially after hearing Petrino refer to his behavior on the sideline and how that has been addressed). At the time, he became heated for his ejection (which he felt was unwarranted), and then lost his cool.

This fair catch call is a "no brainier" the punt returner clearly raises his hand over his head. The hit was a fraction early (interference with a fair catch), so I guess that would make this a dead ball personal foul, 15 yard penalty, and play on, with no ejection for the unfortunate hit on the punt returner, because the young man was not being "thuggish" until after the ejection.

And his "thuggish" after the call is that he felt the ejection was wrong, as he thought the receiver actually had the ball and he had just made a good play. This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

Check that again fellas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDEHflpbzko

@ the one minute three second mark in this video, you can clearly see Wade mouthing off with an attitude on the sideline; the ejection wasn't announced until the two minute sixteen second point.

The ref declared it a deliberate personal foul. This was because he lead with his helmet, not because he was early.

It was his jumping up & celebrating after delivering a deliberate personal foul which got him the boot.

Blown outta proportion or no; this is what the referees decided on.

Now, to play devil's advocate; Not That This Is My Opinion, Simply Just An Observation . . .

Wade's apology was sent over his twitter/facebook page ( which-ever ), and so, without actually hearing him speak, it is hard to determine whether or not he was sincere, or gauge if his apology sounded written for him. It really does become very difficult to discern his true remorse through a text message.

Now, I am not saying his apology was disingenuous. It may have been his honest feelings. I am just conveying the inability to observe his demeanor from reading a quick tweet (or what have you).

In any event, if the SEC wanted to send a message, they should have given him a verbal warning; making it publicly known to the media that they had done so . . . not giving him a suspension from further competition for an isolated penalty.

It is not as though he got up and slugged someone in the face after the play. He received an ejection; that should have been suffice. In TJ McDonald's incident during the USC/Stanford game, the pac-12 commissioner gave him a half game suspension because he had been previously warned by the conference for this kind of hit.

The SEC gave no leniency here; no warning, no citing of previous infractions. Just, Dovovan's favorite mantra "Off With His Head!" ... Now let us review how we should handle things.

I don't like it.

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[Cane from the Bend]

If you peruse the penalty for Interference with a player attempting to receive the ball...it calls for "disqualification" if the offense is a flagrant foul. Also initiating contact with a "defenseless player" with the crown of the helmet is an ejection if judged to be a flagrant foul. Rule 9-1-3; 9-1-4.

Yep, and that is exactly what they called.

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[RazorHawk]

I heard his apology and he sounded sincere, that he was sorry, but did not have a very good command of the English language. Much of his protest was that he actually thought the kick receiver had the ball and he had just made a great play. There definitely was a penalty, but there was no evidence of it being dirty or malicious. Ejection was quite possibly not warranted, and further suspension from the SEC was out of line, in my opinion.

People seeing his reaction to his coaches was his pleading his case about being ejected. I am sure I would have done the same thing, even though I would never have been able to get to the receiver before the ball arrived.

[Spence]

I heard his apology and he sounded sincere, that he was sorry, but did not have a very good command of the English language. Much of his protest was that he actually thought the kick receiver had the ball and he had just made a great play. There definitely was a penalty, but there was no evidence of it being dirty or malicious. Ejection was quite possibly not warranted, and further suspension from the SEC was out of line, in my opinion.

People seeing his reaction to his coaches was his pleading his case about being ejected. I am sure I would have done the same thing, even though I would never have been able to get to the receiver before the ball arrived.

That is the problem with the world wide leader in sports. They wanted to blow this up even though what they hinted at was a dirty play had no basis in fact.

[billybud]

Sometimes "flagrant" (which the hit was, IMHO) and "dirty" gets used interchangeably...and they really aren't the same. Since people don't have glass heads. we can't see intent and intent is the only thing that separates a flagrant hit from a dirty play.

Vandy fans will likely see intent while Hawg fans will see an accident. Thats the way we are.