Boise State vs. Wyoming

[Dossenator]

To me, this is the rub. Everyone wants the two best teams to play for this National Championship. But the system is so flawed there is no reasonable subjective or objective way to determine the two best teams. Do I think Boise is the third best or 5th best or even the 10th best team in the country...probably not. Do I think the system should rank them third or higher...absolutely...you can not penalize Boise for a flawed system and hold other teams to a different standard. This whole system is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and I would think, especially on the Razorback's part, that the sow should be held the sacrosanct.

I agree completely. Until they put a system in place to compare all the teams fairly, then Boise State shouldn't be held back because of what conference they belong in. All 119 should have a chance to get into the game.

It's an injustice to teams that play tough schedules. If Ark had Boise's schedule and went undefeated there is no way anyone would put them in the top 2 spots and they would not deserve to be in those spots anyway. If the logic of winning every game is all you have to do then I am not sure why teams are not going independent and scheduling a whole lot of La Tech's, and Wyoming's. I have no doubt that Boise, for one game, could compete against anyone. However, do they have the depth to play Bama, Ark, Flor, Auburn, South Carolina, LSU in consecutive weeks and survive without a loss? This subject kind of gets me going sometimes....I do look through the Razorback tinted glasses. Arkansas' road to the SEC Championship Game and Ultimately the NC Game is a rough road (one they probably will not reach...and I think Ark could beat Boise more times then not this year).

[Spence]

I think you are correct that Boise State probably couldn't run that schedule. The system doesn't require that they do. Boise State has to play their conference schedule. If the SEC or B-10 or any other conference is down, one team could run through and be in the game. Would they be in the top 2 teams, no, but that doesn't matter so why not Boise State?

[Spence]

Doss, I understand your argument and I have made it before myself. In I perfect world I want the best two teams in the game every year. That isn't going to happen. Here is the other side of the argument. The top 2 teams do not always come from the two toughest conferences. The top two teams aren't always the two best teams for that year. (we have all argued this point for years) I also believe the top 2 teams the BCS has picked every year are among the top 10 teams in CFB. Boise State is a top 10 team based on the fact they are on almost everyone's top 10 list in the AP, Coaches, Computers, and CFP users poll ( ). So I think based on that, if they win the rest of their games and win those games like they should win against an inferior team, let them play. They are no different then lots of other teams that have played in the game.

[Dossenator]

I understand your point. It's just frustrating being a Razorback fan sometimes. I have to deal with stuff like this: Rece Davis (of College Gameday) said today that if Ark beats Bama Saturday that Bama is still the best team. In his eyes they could still play for the National Championship. Now if Ark loses then their season is over...in regards to getting to the NC game. That's frustrating. Since joining the SEC Bama and Ark have played 18 times (Bama has won 10 and Ark has won ...I would not call that much of a domination. Then I see a team like Boise almost going through the motions on most weeks and killing terrible teams and they get all this press and love from most of the media.

You don't know how bad I want this win Saturday for my Hogs. That Stadium in Fayetteville come Saturday will be an overflow of emotion....that is fueled by attitudes like that of Rece Davis. Hog nation wants this win sooooo badly. I have not seen the excitement and anticipation for a Hog game like this in my lifetime. This week is all ready been too long....when is Saturday going to get here?

I also have another question....if Boise can run the table and play in the big game....then why not TCU? I don't hear people pumping TCU up for the NC game.

[Cane from the Bend]

if Boise can run the table and play in the big game....then why not TCU? I don't hear people pumping TCU up for the NC game.

Actually, the media are.

Some are even questioning why they are not ranked higher than Boise State... of course, seeing as how the head to head played out in the Fiesta Bowl; I do not get this argument.

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[billybud]

The top 2 teams do not always come from the two toughest conferences. The top two teams aren't always the two best teams for that year.

I think that we can all agree with that....I, like Doss, have a problem declaring a team one of the top two teams if, in truth, they haven't had close to a championship season. That is, at least not play a schedule SOS ranked in the bottom third of the 120 teams playing.

I will never vote for a team to be #1 or #2 at the end of the year whose schedule is weaker than 70% of their peers. Such a team has only proven that they have beaten weaker competition than a one or two loss team playing a top ten schedule.

[Spence]

I understand your point. It's just frustrating being a Razorback fan sometimes. I have to deal with stuff like this: Rece Davis (of College Gameday) said today that if Ark beats Bama Saturday that Bama is still the best team. In his eyes they could still play for the National Championship. Now if Ark loses then their season is over...in regards to getting to the NC game. That's frustrating. Since joining the SEC Bama and Ark have played 18 times (Bama has won 10 and Ark has won ...I would not call that much of a domination. Then I see a team like Boise almost going through the motions on most weeks and killing terrible teams and they get all this press and love from most of the media.

You don't know how bad I want this win Saturday for my Hogs. That Stadium in Fayetteville come Saturday will be an overflow of emotion....that is fueled by attitudes like that of Rece Davis. Hog nation wants this win sooooo badly. I have not seen the excitement and anticipation for a Hog game like this in my lifetime. This week is all ready been too long....when is Saturday going to get here?

I also have another question....if Boise can run the table and play in the big game....then why not TCU? I don't hear people pumping TCU up for the NC game.

I think TCU would have a shot. The reason I think Boise State leads TCU is that Boise State beat them in Jan.

It isn't fair for teams like Arkansas. That isn't Boise State's problem, it is people like Rece Davis who anoint teams and then if they turn out to be wrong, can't seem to pull back and go into a different direction.

[donovan]

I will never vote for a team to be #1 or #2 at the end of the year whose schedule is weaker than 70% of their peers. Such a team has only proven that they have beaten weaker competition than a one or two loss team playing a top ten schedule.

I will send an immediate telegram to Boise...not sure they have internet there, yet...and tell them to just start sharpening their harrows, Spring will come soon enough.

I always like playing games with people that make up their own rules and change them in the middle of the game. My grand kids do that..."But Grandpa, we forgot to tell you, we don't play that way." Grandpa, you play like you vote in the CFP, you always let Sally win. How come she gets to move as many spaces as she wants? "Because she is three." She may be three, but she is not Boise." "And how come our Monopoly board is blue?"

[Spence]

That is my big problem with the system. The constant changing of the rules and the "fixing" of the polls by the voters. Although the middies are often the target that isn't alway the case. Georgia was ahead of LSU in the polls and fell victim as well. If a team needs a certain SOS ranking to be considered then spell that out and stick with it. Do t constantly try to position certain teams in position just because you feel the should be there.

I happen to believe we should work to find the two best teams. I believe the best team can have two losses and still be better than an undefeated team. I believe schedule strength can and should play a part in determining who the best teams are in any given year. I don't believe any of that should be used as an excuse for leaving teams out. We all know if Notre Dame played the exact same schedule as Boise State - even given their recent problems - The would play for a championship and people would proclaim them great. So CFB should abide by their rules and apply them to all. That seems fair to me.

[RazorHawk]

That is my big problem with the system.
I happen to believe we should work to find the two best teams. I believe the best team can have two losses and still be better than an undefeated team. I believe schedule strength can and should play a part in determining who the best teams are in any given year. I don't believe any of that should be used as an excuse for leaving teams out. We all know if Notre Dame played the exact same schedule as Boise State - even given their recent problems - The would play for a championship and people would proclaim them great. So CFB should abide by their rules and apply them to all. That seems fair to me.

This is the problem with the current system. It is almost impossible to identify the two best teams. It would be a little easier to identify the four best teams, and even easier to identify the eight best teams. Identifying the best 16 teams would be even an easier thing to do. I realize that it has to stop somewhere but think trying to find the two best teams with such diverse conference makeups (hence huge varying of schedule difficulty) is almost impossible.

[Spence]

But it isn't impossible, the problem is the haves do not want it to happen.

[billybud]

I will send an immediate telegram to Boise...not sure they have internet there, yet...and tell them to just start sharpening their harrows, Spring will come soon enough.

Hoo boy! I love you western guys and the way you stick to traditions. Telegram?

I know...Mr. Morse and telegrams replaced the Pony Express. But, really, a telegram in the 21st century? That's being a hard core neo-luddite.

[billybud]

But it isn't impossible, the problem is the haves do not want it to happen.

There are 120 teams...way too many for equity. Way too many to assume that all play equal opponents. Maybe, those programs who will play a tougher schedule do not want to always be at the disadvantage to teams that play one game a year ......teams that may play no end ranked team.

If weak scheduling leads to a chance at a NC, then we will have as many dumbed down schedules as one may get (like the Big Ten clubbing of baby seals this weekend). You get what you reward and if we reward winning over the quality of that win, than we shall reap what we have sown.

I have already seen that happening. Like Jimbo says, "Why play Oklahoma? FSU could have scheduled another BYU type team and been in the top 20 today." And FSU will be dumbing down their schedule in the future to ensure wins. Appearance over substance.

About not being considered? FSU has been there. IN 1979, FSU finished the season undefeated, with wins over Florida, LSU, South Carolina, Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, Miami, Arizona State, Miss. St.....but were ranked behind one loss Nebraska, one loss Oklahoma, one loss Pittsburgh, and one loss Houston.

[Spence]

But it isn't impossible, the problem is the haves do not want it to happen.

There are 120 teams...way too many for equity. Way too many to assume that all play equal opponents. Maybe, those programs who will play a tougher schedule do not want to always be at the disadvantage to teams that play one game a year ......teams that may play no end ranked team.

If weak scheduling leads to a chance at a NC, then we will have as many dumbed down schedules as one may get (like the Big Ten clubbing of baby seals this weekend). You get what you reward and if we reward winning over the quality of that win, than we shall reap what we have sown.

I have already seen that happening. Like Jimbo says, "Why play Oklahoma? FSU could have scheduled another BYU type team and been in the top 20 today." And FSU will be dumbing down their schedule in the future to ensure wins. Appearance over substance.

About not being considered? FSU has been there. IN 1979, FSU finished the season undefeated, with wins over Florida, LSU, South Carolina, Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, Miami, Arizona State, Miss. St.....but were ranked behind one loss Nebraska, one loss Oklahoma, one loss Pittsburgh, and one loss Houston.

You don't have to have equal scheduling. You should and can, however, make the process equal. If you provide a way to reasonably compare teams, then all teams can be compared without having equal schedule strength. SOS can be used as a component in the equation, but having the toughest schedule doesn't have anything to do with the strength of a team. It is just a component to compare. It can be a very good component if you provide enough information for it to be used. If that is done, a team with the worst SOS can be compared fairly with the team with the best. Until then, SOS is just something used to justify a bias.

[billybud]

Having the toughest schedule may not have anything to do with the strength of the team...BUT WINNING WITH A TOUGH SCHEDULE DOES.

Winning with a weak schedule actually also may not have anything to do with the strength of a team.

And that is the crux of the problem.