ND student dies at football practice

[Dossenator]

I think it does come down on the shoulders of the coach and Kelly should be fired in my opinion. A good coach first of all would not be practicing outside in those conditions. And a good coach oversees his whole program not just his players. I mentioned it before but Petrino said yesterday that he has a conversation with the head of video before every practice....they discuss wind, lightning, and other weather factors. If there is any doubt for safety (players, staff, etc) then practice is taken inside. So, according to Petrino this situation would have never happened at one of his practices (he did not say that but what he said implies it). Arkansas, in these conditions, would have been in doors (like most schools with indoor facilities). I would think that most colleges have indoor facilities now (heck most of the high schools in NW Arkansas have them now. Petrino also mentioned many of the times he goes inside and later finds out that being outside would have been fine....said he always sides with caution. He also mentioned...why would you want to practice outside with poor weather conditions. You can work on your passing game much more efficiently by going inside (he mentioned something to the effect of practice is for getting better). Practicing in high winds will not make you better.

I worked at a warehouse when I was in high school and first couple of years in college. I was told one day to go up on a scissor lift with another employee and change several light bulbs. Even with the lift fully extended you had to raise your hands above your head and stand on your tip toes (the thing swayed terribly from side to side). I was terrified for my safety (and life...even though I was probably perfectly safe). I did my job because I was taught to do so. Months later I spoke to my boss and said I was terrified when I went up on the lift. He never made me go back up but at the time I was more afraid of telling my boss that I was a chicken then going up on the lift. I have to believe this kid felt the same way. It was his job, no one told him not to go up, as far as he was concerned practice was as normal.

[GoBoilers]

The lawyers on both sides will earn their money on this. Sad thing is there is a dead student and family mixed in with all of this.

[Dossenator]

The lawyers on both sides will earn their money on this. Sad thing is there is a dead student and family mixed in with all of this.

It is terrible for the family.

[WoVeU]

This is from Jason Whitlock; http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/notre-dame-must-fire-brian-kelly-over-student-death-102910

I can see the AD in deep trouble over this - he is over the athletic department. The athletic department is over what happens in the athletic dept. The head coach is over the football team. Sometimes the head coach becomes the face of the program, but I don't see this as is responsibily at all. He decided to have football practice in windy conditions. That may have set in motion a series of events that resulted in a kids death, but he didn't tell that kid to get on a lift. I would bet he wasn't consulted about it at all and I don't think he should have been. The video co -ordinator should have consulted the AD and the AD should have told him to not to let the kid on the lift. Common sense, this isn't rocket science. It is the kind of thing that managers - like the AD - should be used to handling. It is a 2 second decision. 20-30 mph winds - possible gusts to 60mph - don't let him go up on the lift ----next.

That was my feelings, especially hearing the AD was right there. He is toast! If it was a player or Graduate Assistant, Kelly would get rung up. But this kid doesn't fall under his chain of command....at least I wouldn't in any manner assume that. But the AD, it is all his, AND he was there, and this sort of thing is much more up his alley!

[Spence]

That is my point. You can't burn the coach for this, because the kid wouldn't be and more under his charge then the janitor or the cook who prepares the food for the training table. The AD is in trouble, though, and he absolutely knows it.

[Cane from the Bend]

How about;

Who was the moron that brought the scissor lift out onto the field in the first place?

Those things are generally stored inside a shed, or tall support corridor.

As soon as whichever dummy brought that thing outside, why wasn't the issue immediately addressed, by someone saying, "Put that thing away. We won't be using it today" ... ?

It never even should have been a discussion. It simply should have been sent back to storage from the beginning.

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[Spence]

How about;

Who was the moron that brought the scissor lift out onto the field in the first place?

Those things are generally stored inside a shed, or tall support corridor.

As soon as whichever dummy brought that thing outside, why wasn't the issue immediately addressed, by someone saying, "Put that thing away. We won't be using it today" ... ?

It never even should have been a discussion. It simply should have been sent back to storage from the beginning.

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Exactly. The people directly involved should be question on why they let him on the lift. Not the high profile head coach who probably didn't know the kid was even there.

[Dossenator]

They just reported on ESPN radio in Southern CAl that Brian Kelly came out and took blame for the death of the student. They reported he said that he made the decision to send the kid up on the scissor lift and to have practice in the bad weather conditions. How can Kelly still have a job at ND if this report is correct?

[Spence]

They just reported on ESPN radio in Southern CAl that Brian Kelly came out and took blame for the death of the student. They reported he said that he made the decision to send the kid up on the scissor lift and to have practice in the bad weather conditions. How can Kelly still have a job at ND if this report is correct?

If he sent the kid up without knowing or caring the limitations of the lift, then I agree, he should not have a job. He is a football coach I doubt that he knows one thing about running a scissor lift or it's limitations and he should have no say about how or when it is used.

[Spence]

I can't find anywhere where Kelly said he had ordered the student on the lift. Everything I have seen says that Kelly took responsibility for the decision to practice outdoors that day. That isn't the same as ordering him on the lift. If Kelly told him or anyone else to send the student up on the lift then he should be fired. I'm not sure he should be fired for his decision to practice outside. The two aren't the same. The practice could have been held safely for the football players. I think whoever the kid reported to - someone had to call him and tell him the team was having practice - that guy is the guy who should have said that the team could practice all they wanted, but it wasn't safe to send someone up on a scissor lift under those conditions.

[Dossenator]

Spence...I was just repeating what I heard on ESPN radio in Southern CA. I have not found it online either. I think too many people are trying to find a scapegoat here...a head of media to blame, some graduate student, etc. In the end, this is Kelly's program and he should be held accountable for what happens at his practices. When searching for info on this tragedy and who to blame I kept coming across this statement by Ohio State coach Jim Tressel: "I don't know if we'll be inside or out," Tressel told Ohio reporters 24 hours before the Notre Dame tragedy. "It looks a little nasty. I worry about our cameramen, their well-being up there 50 feet in the air."

Spence do you know if Tressel said this....it is all over the internet. If so, there's a coach that looks at the whole picture. I have mentioned several times that Petrino meets the head of video before every practice to discuss the weather for safety reasons first and then to also determine if a productive practice can be held outside. If there is ever a question about safety he takes the practice indoors.

I am shocked that ND had Kelly on the sideline this past Saturday. I read a blog today that was quite interesting. It gave scenarios that most would agree an immediate firing should take place....and scenarios that were not much different then the Kelly situation. He is getting special treatment because he is the head coach for a major college football program? The statements of Kelly I did find were lacking empathy. It was like...oh, we practiced outside and had a productive practice...well, until a kid died...ho hum....(not exactly what he said of course but that's how it came across to me...like he was more concerned about football then the kids life).

I have never had issue with ND the school....I have always had issues with the football program and the special treatment they get. If Kelly is allowed to remain the coach then I guess I have issues with the school as well.

[Spence]

I never meant it to look like I was calling you out for saying Kelly owned up to making the kid go up on the lift. I was just saying I couldn't find it anywhere.

Tressel is a cross all the T's and dot all the I's kind of guy. What is funny about Tressel's statement is that Ohio State has permanent towers at the out door facilities where the videographers record practices. So short of a tornado it isn't an issue at Ohio State. Tressel is a big picture kind of guy. Maybe all head coaches should be that way, but some are just football coaches. Tressel's fanatical control over his program is a reason that people make fun of him and don't like him. I don't like the fact that he refuses to look at his schemes and philosophies that aren't seeming to work. Anyway, I don't think that this is Kelly's sword to fall on and I don't have any particular fondness for him or his program. I do think if anyone has to take responsibility for this it would be the AD for not having a safety policy for this situation. You would think that if you are using lifts to shoot video that you would have the OSHA required safety policy posted and that the students direct supervisor - and he would have had one - would know it and not let him get on the lift in the first place. Now if Kelly insisted this kid get on that lift, then he should be gone without question. I don't think that is the case, though, because ND is one of the most politically correct schools in the nation and they would have done it just to deflect blame from the AD or the school.

[Dossenator]

I never meant it to look like I was calling you out for saying Kelly owned up to making the kid go up on the lift. I was just saying I couldn't find it anywhere.

Tressel is a cross all the T's and dot all the I's kind of guy. What is funny about Tressel's statement is that Ohio State has permanent towers at the out door facilities where the videographers record practices. So short of a tornado it isn't an issue at Ohio State. Tressel is a big picture kind of guy. Maybe all head coaches should be that way, but some are just football coaches. Tressel's fanatical control over his program is a reason that people make fun of him and don't like him. I don't like the fact that he refuses to look at his schemes and philosophies that aren't seeming to work. Anyway, I don't think that this is Kelly's sword to fall on and I don't have any particular fondness for him or his program. I do think if anyone has to take responsibility for this it would be the AD for not having a safety policy for this situation. You would think that if you are using lifts to shoot video that you would have the OSHA required safety policy posted and that the students direct supervisor - and he would have had one - would know it and not let him get on the lift in the first place. Now if Kelly insisted this kid get on that lift, then he should be gone without question. I don't think that is the case, though, because ND is one of the most politically correct schools in the nation and they would have done it just to deflect blame from the AD or the school.

I know you were not calling me out. I was just saying I did not see it online either and I was just repeating what I heard on the radio.

[Cane from the Bend]

The answer is, No...

Kelly never came out and said he told the kid to go up there.

That is just espn huffing smoke to keep the story flames cooking.

Kelly stated in a press conference that every member of the football program receives an itinerary of all practices and what they are expected to do...

However, he does not even associate with the video loggers during practices.

When someone shows up, they should already be aware of their independent responsibilities.

Kelly never even saw Declan, though he knew where Declan was situated.

Kelly was not directly responsible for the accident. Especially if the AD was there ( and he was ).

Also, Declan was a member of the video team, not the head of it. Whomever it was that supervised their group, should have been right on top of the situation from the get go...

And, anyone that was standing near the bottom of the lift should have been yelling at him to come down... especially once the thing starting rattling, and rocking a bit.

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[Spence]

The answer is, No...

Kelly never came out and said he told the kid to go up there.

That is just espn huffing smoke to keep the story flames cooking.

Kelly stated in a press conference that every member of the football program receives an itinerary of all practices and what they are expected to do...

However, he does not even associate with the video loggers during practices.

When someone shows up, they should already be aware of their independent responsibilities.

Kelly never even saw Declan, though he knew where Declan was situated.

Kelly was not directly responsible for the accident. Especially if the AD was there ( and he was ).

Also, Declan was a member of the video team, not the head of it. Whomever it was that supervised their group, should have been right on top of the situation from the get go...

And, anyone that was standing near the bottom of the lift should have been yelling at him to come down... especially once the thing starting rattling, and rocking a bit.

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That has been my point. I don't care one way or the other what happens to Kelly, but I don't think it is fair to blame him. I don't think he did anything wrong.