Boise State reality check

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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Spence » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:35 pm

billybud wrote:A tie is just more accurate a description of the proceeding...the teams played a regulation game and tied...that's it.

No artificial winner based on non real game conditions...


The words OT and the end of the box score provide an accurate discription.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby billybud » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Yeah...but folks (computers and pollsters) see 4-2 vs 5-1 and think that is the description...and it really ain't so. Those teams played equal..that's it to me.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Spence » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:43 pm

It should have been part of the computer program and pollsters who don't know what happened in a game shouldn't be voting. Even if you didn't watch the game, I can't imagine why you wouldn't check out all the box scores and then get the low down on the ones that showed something interesting. It doesn't take more then about an hour, I do it every week.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:00 am

BCS Computers don't have "quality" of win...they also (in BCS) no longer factor in the score..it is straight wins/losses...lose by the skin of your teeth in quadruple OT or lose by 48, it's a loss.

Win by 3 in quadruple OT or win by 48, it's a win.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby donovan » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:05 am

billybud wrote:BCS Computers don't have "quality" of win...they also (in BCS) no longer factor in the score..it is straight wins/losses...lose by the skin of your teeth in quadruple OT or lose by 48, it's a loss.

Win by 3 in quadruple OT or win by 48, it's a win.


...and if you are going to consider these issues, seems to me the "quality of win" is relevant..(you know I am not big on any of this)...and it could be done with common sense. Win by 21 and it gives you maximum points..does not allow the running up of the score...pick whatever number makes sense....
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:12 pm

billybud wrote:BCS Computers don't have "quality" of win...they also (in BCS) no longer factor in the score..it is straight wins/losses...lose by the skin of your teeth in quadruple OT or lose by 48, it's a loss.

Win by 3 in quadruple OT or win by 48, it's a win.


That isn't exactly true. Quality wins were winning against a ranked opponent and if that team is good and goes on to win lots of games your SOS is raised, so infact you are credited for a quality win in that sense.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:17 pm

A 9 win Nevada on their schedule equals a 9 win Penn State on their schedule in that scenario, Spence.

SOS (the "quality" part of the computers) ends up being such a small fraction that teams must be really close for it to make an impact.

And, the computers do see things differently, for instance....

Current Sagarin ELO Chess...

Says that Maryland and Wake Forest are stronger than Southern Cal, Arkansas, Michigan, Texas, Rutgers, Penn State, Illinois, Cincinnati, Oregon State, Hawaii, Boise, among others.

Many of us might not agree with that algorithmn.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:26 pm

billybud wrote:A 9 win Nevada on their schedule equals a 9 win Penn State on their schedule in that scenario, Spence.

SOS (the "quality" part of the computers) ends up being such a small fraction that teams must be really close for it to make an impact.

And, the computers do see things differently, for instance....

Current Sagarin ELO Chess...

Says that Maryland and Wake Forest are stronger than Southern Cal, Arkansas, Michigan, Texas, Rutgers, Penn State, Illinois, Cincinnati, Oregon State, Hawaii, Boise, among others.

Many of us might not agree with that algorithmn.


I understand what you are saying and SOS numbers can be skewed because that if strong teams beat each other, but we actually don't know for sure at this point if Maryland and Wake aren't better then those teams. I would agree with you that they aren't better then most of them, but it is really still to early to tell.

The month of November is when the good teams usually show themselves. Until then, especially this year, we are just guessing based on past history.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby donovan » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:09 am

Boise squeaked by at Louisiana Tech......45-31...Defense has become non existent with Boise....their former strength.....Ian Johnson did not play because of a bruised kidney and will not play next week against Fresno State, who is tearing them up......Defense has to kick it up or the blip of the past will be gone and unlike the immortal Patsy Cline, forgotten.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Spence » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:20 am

Not having Ian Johnson for the Fresno State game is going to be tough. Fresno State has been playing very well.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby donovan » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:33 am

By Chadd Cripe - ccripe@idahostatesman.com
Edition Date: 10/26/07

Fresno State quarterback Tom Brandstater turned giddy when he was told that a trophy would be at stake Friday night when the Bulldogs and Boise State Broncos renew their budding rivalry at Bulldog Stadium.

"Now that I know about it, I'm going to start hyping it up in the locker room," Brandstater said Monday during a telephone interview. "As soon as I hang up the phone, I'm going to go tell the guys, ‘We've got to get the Milk Can back!' That just made my day."

The Milk Can — a chromed, 10-gallon, old-school milk can that made its debut in 2005 — was the brainchild of dairymen in Fresno and Boise, who saw an opportunity to formalize the rivalry between the teams and promote the benefits of milk.

The trophy also signifies the level of commitment from dairy booster groups to each program. The Bronco Dairy Boosters raised $103,000 for summer-school scholarships at a banquet last summer. The South Valley Dairy Group has raised as much as $200,000 in a year for the Fresno State program.

Boise State coach Chris Petersen and Fresno State coach Pat Hill have embraced the trophy as a new tradition — onePetersen made sure his players knew about early this week.

"In the Big Ten, it seems like every game is a matchup for some sort of trophy," Petersen said. "There's not much of that going on out here."

Boise State annually plays for one other trophy — the Governor's Trophy against Idaho.

The Milk Can is the only traveling trophy for Fresno State.

"I think that brings something to our conference that is pretty neat," Hill said.

Dairy boosts both programs

The Milk Can's roots lie with two separate dairy groups that decided to get involved in their local football programs. California (No. 1) and Idaho (No. 4) are two of the nation's leading dairy producers.

The South Valley Dairy Group began raising money for Fresno State football in 2001. They like the way Pat Hill runs the Bulldogs program and the fact that the school honors the agricultural accomplishments of the San Joaquin Valley with a green "V" on the players' helmets.

The group has raised more than $700,000 for Fresno State football, said Roger Fluegel, a dairyman in Visalia, Calif. The dairymen also have a large tailgate presence at home games, with 220 season tickets and as many as 1,200 tailgate participants.

The Bronco Dairy Boosters started in 2005, when Treasure Valley dairymen Dan Van Grouw (Meridian) and Mike Siegersma (Nampa) met with Bronco Athletic Association executive director Bob Madden about a tailgating spot for Boise State games. Gary Herriott, who owns a trucking company, is a former dairyman and was already a Bronco booster, made the introductions.

The trio knew about the fundraising at Fresno State. Fluegel and Van Grouw are longtime friends and Van Grouw's brother is part of the Fresno group.

"We said we wanted a tailgate spot, but we think we can raise some money, too," Van Grouw said.

The Bronco Dairy Boosters held a dinner and auction in the summer of 2005 that raised $45,000 for summer school scholarships. The next year, they raised $65,000. And this year, they raised $103,000.

It's an invitation-only, $100-per-plate event for members of the dairy industry, and coaches Dan Hawkins and Chris Petersen have attended. The dairymen come from all over southern Idaho, and many are newcomers to the Boise State program.

"It's starting to get pretty darn big and they're getting well-organized," Madden said.

The Dairy Boosters also helped create a program in which the dairymen's association donates more than 10,000 pints of chocolate and strawberry milk to the BSU weight room.

A trophy is born

Fluegel and Van Grouw came up with the Milk Can idea during their banter about their rival teams. They have been friends for 13 years.

"It was a friendly rivalry between Dan and I," Fluegel said. "I'd said it would be fun to have something to go between us. I brought up, ‘Let's do the Milk Can and treat it like the Stanley Cup.' … It's a unique item that everyone can identify."

The two dairymen agreed to start the trophy and received positive feedback from both programs. The can was produced by the Fresno boosters in time for the 2005 game, but because of administrative changeover at Fresno State the details weren't finalized to get the trophy on the field for that year's game in Fresno.

The Bulldogs won 27-7 — and their boosters put that win on the can. Each year's game will be memorialized with a plate added to the trophy listing the date, score and name of every player on the winning team.

"We weren't quite ready to start it, but they won the game and they said, ‘Hey, we started it,' " Madden said. "All the sudden the can surfaced."

It made its first appearance at a game last year, when the Broncos won 45-21 in Boise and carried the Milk Can off the field. It spent the past year in the Allen Noble Hall of Fame.

The Broncos packed the Milk Can in their equipment truck Wednesday for the drive to Fresno. The dairymen hope the Broncos will carry it onto the field with them before the game.

The dairymen also plan to sign a sponsorship agreement that would put a corporate logo on the can's lid and provide $5,000 to each school.

Dairymen from both states will tailgate together before this week's game, just as they did last year in Boise.

"Dairymen, they're kind of a tight-knit breed," Siegersma said. "We're competitors, but we're also relatives and friends. It makes for a good rivalry."
Recent Comments

Friday, October 26, 2007 - 4:01am | shaunfrederick1

no logo

This is great for both programs. Just dont sell out for a measly 10K and put a logo on it. Leave it bare!! It would be much better that way. It would be a trophy just for the sake of the win! Boo that Logo.

Friday, October 26, 2007 - 7:17am | Tater42

re: no logo

I say if they can get some more scholarship money for the school with a corporate logo. I say "logo for it"
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby donovan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:22 am

Just got back from Boise an hour ago...saw grandkids...etc....went to the game....Boise handled San Jose without much trouble. They were sharp and crisp on their assignment and got a good deal of support from players off the bench. Ian Johnson did not do very well...his bruised kidney is apparently OK...but not really on track...he was used as a decoy more than a got to guy. Tharp is a good quarterback...makes mature decisions and has several good receivers to throw to.

Plane was late crowded and full....
I can not remember how to set the clock on my car radio.....
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby Derek » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:56 am

I'd like to see a game in Boise. the blue turf would be cool to see at least once.
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby ..fanatic » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:10 pm

David wrote:
donovan wrote: I can not remember how to set the clock on my car radio.....


I hate when that happens. It happened to me once and I got so frustrated trying to figure it out. I wound up outsmarting it though, I discounted the battery and reconnected it precisely at 12:00.



BRILLIANT!
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Re: Boise State reality check

Postby donovan » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 am

I think when you play arguably the worst team in Division I....long ways from the Merlin Olsen era....a 52 to 0 score is about as good as you can get...especially when you pull your QB in the 3rd Quarter and play the whole traveling squad.

The test is still Hawaii....
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