Boise State being snubbed by BCS

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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby Spence » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:35 pm

billybud wrote:Schools don't cry about such things...their fans do. And they wail and knash their teeth in the wilderness and mutter bitter diatribes about BCS conspiracy....the schools are smarter, they talk to their delegation about how to legislate their way into the big money games, or at least bring forth enough of such threat to strong arm a concession or two.


Even their fans aren't yelling too loudly. My point is that if Boise State and Ohio State play today, it is probably a close game. I don't know which would win, but both would have a good shot. Yes, Ohio State played a better schedule, but Boise State didn't lose, so I think that is a wash. When all other things are equal, the team with the better record should go and that is my major rub in this. Which team is better - they are probably pretty even. Ohio State probably has more depth and better skill players, but Boise State has a decent defense and Ohio State is hogtied on offense with a terrible offensive line. The Fiesta chose cash, instead of the team that deserved to go.
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:02 pm

On the Boise Rivals Board...there are currently, 6:00pm EST, nine separate threads re BCS and being left out...I'd say that the fans are griping.
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby RazorHawk » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:51 pm

Billybud, I am with you and think Boise St has been rewarded properly. When a team is in a lesser conference they must schedule some big boys in non-conference, if expecting to get any respect. Ohio St would have no problem beating Boise St. IMO
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby winter_kills_stuff » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:13 pm

RazorHawk wrote:Billybud, I am with you and think Boise St has been rewarded properly. When a team is in a lesser conference they must schedule some big boys in non-conference, if expecting to get any respect. Ohio St would have no problem beating Boise St. IMO

Personally I don't see how anyone can take this position, based upon the facts at hand.
Boise St did play a BCS opponent, and beat them, pretty convincingly, albeit by a marginal MOV. Does that matter?
I'm not going to let you guys belittle the WAC. It's a competitive conference, by most standards. Evidenced, in part, by having multiple bowl recipients (4 by my count). And, they have played the 'big boys'. Won several, lost a majority (5-12).
Is that bad? I'm asking you, not telling, can you see the difference? From my perspective the WAC has done fair, not great.
Even so, I think they are, as a conference, a lot better than you are giving credit for.
What do you base your opinion on? I'm interested. I suggested Boise St & Ohio St be paired together. Both, IMO, earned a BCS 'at large' bid, both are qualified, based upon their individual merits, which include SOS. Neither necessarily has a 'marquee' game to sit on. Both played well, throughout the year, and both played outstanding, at the end of the year. I don't see how anyone else can see it any differently, myself.
The last point I'm making is going to be pretty difficult to take, if you think justice was served. Boise St got screwed out of a BCS game. Plain & simple. To suggest otherwise isn't being fair to the facts, IMO.

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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:09 pm

The MWC is NOT competitive with even the weakest BCS conference. The whole MWC only had two wins this season over BCS teams with winning records...

Boise played an extremely weak schedule...and I imagine that any of the op 25 teams would also be undefeated on that schedule...Sure Ohio State lost a couple..but to two BCS conference champs. Boise hasn't played an really good teams and doesn't deserve a BCS bowl..and the coaches and computers saw it that way as well..so they are going to play TCU.

I think that TCU is a good match up for Boise and should be a close game...Vegas has TCU at -2.5, a near pick em game.
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby WoVeU » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:53 am

I pull forthe little guys, but this is no big snub. Boise St. followed a good formula. But Utah, Ball St., TCU, and BYU all play into this...they followed really good formulas too. It just boils down to the Cinderella story. Most of us like a Cinderella....but when you start talking about Cinderella"s"...it gives many people pause.

But the train keeps chugging along fellows. Add in the efforts of Cincy, Texas Tech, and even Ga. Tech, Ole Miss, Oregon St. and you are looking at an ever tightening landscape. For all the problems with the BCS...it is going to get worse. The BCS is really to designed pick the 2 most deserving teams from 6 and the 10 most deserving teams from out of 12 to 14 teams. The waters are muddier than that...and the pool is still getting stirred!

And as interesting as it has been and as increasingly interesting the future looks to be...we have ESPN signing up for to host the Fun House. I can't wait to see the new mirrors they bring in...and then I can't wait to see the first analysis who decides to throw a rock at the whole dang thing!
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby winter_kills_stuff » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:51 pm

billybud wrote:The MWC is NOT competitive with even the weakest BCS conference. The whole MWC only had two wins this season over BCS teams with winning records...

The 'whole' MWC? By that I assume you are referring to all 9 teams? 2 games. OK.
How many did your conference have? All 12 teams? Don't bother to tally them up, I'll tell you, 5.
And 6 losses. How many did MWC have? 2.
Unless my math is off, 2-2 is better than 5-6, which again puts the MWC on top of the heap, ACC close behind.
Again, according to your standards. Change them again, if you think it helps your cause.
People here are smarter than you are giving them credit for. I sense they see through your bologna.

billybud wrote:Boise played an extremely weak schedule...and I imagine that any of the op 25 teams would also be undefeated on that schedule...Sure Ohio State lost a couple..but to two BCS conference champs. Boise hasn't played an really good teams and doesn't deserve a BCS bowl..and the coaches and computers saw it that way as well..so they are going to play TCU.

Obviously, that's wrong. Oregon is ranked in the top-25. Boise St beat them, when they were ranked #17 overall. And did it in convincing fashion, but again, what do I know? I'm just a caveman. Your technology frightens and confuses me.

[quote='billybud"]I think that TCU is a good match up for Boise and should be a close game...Vegas has TCU at -2.5, a near pick em game.[/quote]Sure, it ought to be a good game, but the point being made is was Boise slighted? Yes, they were.
How does pairing them against a credible opponent justify their not having been selected? It doesn't. If anything it makes it worse, in my mind. Both teams probably deserved a New Year's Day bowl invitation, minimally. I credit the folks at Poinsettia Bowl for putting it together, but is it justice? $750,000 per team compared to $17 million. Give me a break!

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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:14 pm

How many did your conference have? All 12 teams? Don't bother to tally them up, I'll tell you, 5.


I think I will tally since you are not able to correctly............Just Georgia Tech, all by itself, had more than 5 wins over BCS teams with winning records...I don't need to go any further to know this is another post that you have not thought out. Quit wasting our time with nonsense.

(I think, what you do is twist stuff...)
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:25 pm

tell ya what "winter"...How many games did WAC teams play against teams ranked in the final BCS Top 25?

ACC teams played 31 games against teams who ended up being final ranked in the BCS Top 25...and that is the difference in SOS..
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:50 pm

And I do think that the Boise/TCU game is a good match and will provide fans with a good game.

Forget the Poinsetta Bowl setting and the lack of a BCS bowl for a minute...TCU is a good team and could give Ohio State a run for their money. This may be one of the better bowl pairings to come along.
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby Spence » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:53 pm

billybud wrote:And I do think that the Boise/TCU game is a good match and will provide fans with a good game.

Forget the Poinsetta Bowl setting and the lack of a BCS bowl for a minute...TCU is a good team and could give Ohio State a run for their money. This may be one of the better bowl pairings to come along.


I haven't seem many teams with a defense who wouldn't give Ohio State a run for their money. :wink:
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:55 pm

I just picked OSU out of the air..you could have inserted Cincinnati, VT, etc...
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby winter_kills_stuff » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:00 pm

billybud wrote:tell ya what "winter"...How many games did WAC teams play against teams ranked in the final BCS Top 25?

ACC teams played 31 games against teams who ended up being final ranked in the BCS Top 25...and that is the difference in SOS..

Billybud, I'm not here to split hairs. If you want to do all the tallying, by all means, do it. But so much of what you post is so biased, and completely baseless, I wouldn't trust you to do my laundry. (Plus I like to do my own whites, if you please).

You have a right to your opinion, but don't expect me to agree with it, especially when you fabricate numbers to justify your position. The point of this thread, to my understanding, anyway, was to position conferences relative to their games, OOC.
I attempted to do that, and do it in a way that was factual. To imply otherwise I think says something about you, not me.
I don't 'twist' anything. That isn't my style. I'm more of 'hands on' guy, anyway, when it comes to number crunching. I don't do it to annoy you, or anyone else. I do it because I think it merits discussion, and it does, when it comes to being fair.

Georgia Tech, to my knowledge, was a respectable but still largely unpolished ACC team. Maybe that's why all your numbers are inflated. I will admit, I used Notre Dame, as a BCS team, mostly out of respect to their program. It didn't inflate my numbers, in fact, it deflated, them, as SDSU lost to them. Hawaii will have a difficult time beating them, IMO. But, I didn't fabricate anything, and I resent that implication, and I feel you should apologize for making it. I don't lie, it's not my MO.

You are correct on one point, however. I am human, I make mistakes. Pardon me for not being perfect. But I admit when I'm wrong. I should have given the ACC credit for a game, but I neglected to, in my initial posting. They were 15-8, as I remember, which should position them slightly ahead of the MWC, by %. You can't include ACC games, simply because we are comparing conferneces against each other. I'm not cheating you. I suppose by definition, you are correct, the ACC very likely plays a more competitive schedule, overall, than either the MWC or WAC. Congratulations. I don't think it takes a wizard to calculate that. But you are still missing the point. We are talking about comparing a Boise team against say, a Georgia Tech (since they are rated higher than VT). Use whatever figures you feel are appropriate, I still believe, in my heart, Boise St is a better team, than your ACC. Call me crazy, or whatever else you feel applies, but do it fairly. OK?

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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:12 pm

I don't think there is enough evidence to say Boise State is as good as every team in the ACC. I would think that they would complete, this year, to win the ACC if they were in the conference. Whether they would actually win, I don't think anyone can say. I think they would compete well with the B-10, PAC-10 except USC and the B-East this year. I think that it is probably fair to say they would be in the top half of every conference except the SEC and they probably would be right at the halfway mark in the SEC. I think Boise State should have gotten the bowl bid over Ohio State in the Fiesta bowl because I think Boise State's whole body of work was better then Ohio State's, but saying they are better then every team in the BCS is just something that can't be proven and isn't worth arguing about.

Boise State won all their games. They only struggled against Oregon (at the end). They get it done on defense - which usually is the mark of a team that is good instead of gimmicky. Their offense can score some points, they aren't a one horse wonder on either side of the ball. The only sore spot on the Boise State team ( I got to see four games) was special teams, specifically punt coverage. Having trouble on special teams is generally a sign of lack of depth (at least experienced depth), so that probably takes them out of national championship consideration, but they could easily match up to Ohio State this year. Ohio State is probably better at most skill positions but Boise State is better in the trenches and that is a heavy equalizer in a game. Most mid majors have problems in the trenches, that is generally what keeps them from going to the next level in terms of wins vs. good teams. Boise State isn't like that. That is why they should have gotten the nod against Texas in the Fiesta.
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Re: Boise State being snubbed by BCS

Postby billybud » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:54 pm

LOL...in the ACC, if you won five games in conference..you were golden...

The Atlantic Divisdion is a picture of parity...

ATLANTIC DIVISION
Boston College 5-3
Florida State 5-3 .
Clemson 4-4
Maryland 4-4
Wake Forest 4-4
NC State 4-4 .

COASTAL DIVISION
Virginia Tech 5-3
Georgia Tech 5-3
North Carolina 4-4
Miami 4-4 .
Virginia 3-5
Duke 1-7
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