I know how to solve all the BCS mid-major inclusion problems

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ktffan
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Postby ktffan » Fri May 05, 2006 3:39 pm

billybud wrote:
Kansas State lost a game...but the penalty for playing a "light" schedule is that you must win your conference(KSU=SOS #56)...in 1998, FSU lost one game playing a schedule ranked SOS#5. FSU and KSU had identical records...but FSU played a much tougher schedule and was the conference champ to boot...ergo FSU went to the BCS and KSU went on to lose to Purdue in the Alamo.


Kansas State not going to a BCS bowl had nothing to do with their schedule and everything to do with Florida and Ohio State being able to bring more fans.

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Postby billybud » Fri May 05, 2006 4:06 pm

KSU really should have gone ahead of Florida in 98....KSU was more deserving on merit....

Don't know why Florida was invited....but it might make sense that a lot of Gators would motor six hours down to Miami...however, Florida fans are much more likely to buzz in and out of the city and not make a family vacation of it...

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Postby Spence » Fri May 05, 2006 4:38 pm

ktffan wrote:
billybud wrote:
Kansas State lost a game...but the penalty for playing a "light" schedule is that you must win your conference(KSU=SOS #56)...in 1998, FSU lost one game playing a schedule ranked SOS#5. FSU and KSU had identical records...but FSU played a much tougher schedule and was the conference champ to boot...ergo FSU went to the BCS and KSU went on to lose to Purdue in the Alamo.


Kansas State not going to a BCS bowl had nothing to do with their schedule and everything to do with Florida and Ohio State being able to bring more fans.


Exactly right. How well teams travel shouldn't make a difference, but it does. Teams that travel extremely well will always get the nod over teams that don't. All things being relatively equal.

If that tells a team and it's fans anything it is "support your team".
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby ktffan » Fri May 05, 2006 4:42 pm

billybud wrote:KSU really should have gone ahead of Florida in 98....KSU was more deserving on merit....

Don't know why Florida was invited....but it might make sense that a lot of Gators would motor six hours down to Miami...however, Florida fans are much more likely to buzz in and out of the city and not make a family vacation of it...


Bowl bids are given based on the potential for tickets to be sold. Kansas State came out on the short end there. The bowls had their choice of a list of teams and SOS was not considered.

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Postby billybud » Fri May 05, 2006 4:50 pm

Since Florida blew out Syracuse, it was not a great match up.

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Postby ktffan » Fri May 05, 2006 5:00 pm

billybud wrote:Since Florida blew out Syracuse, it was not a great match up.


That's obvious enough even CLF might agree with it.

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Postby billybud » Fri May 05, 2006 5:17 pm

But...in retrospect..putting a one loss KSU up vs a four loss Purdue made a great game...

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Postby ktffan » Fri May 05, 2006 5:25 pm

billybud wrote:But...in retrospect..putting a one loss KSU up vs a four loss Purdue made a great game...


Only goes to prove that Purdue should have made a BCS bowl.

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Postby Spence » Fri May 05, 2006 5:26 pm

Goes to show you the relative strength of the B-12 north.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby colorado_loves_football » Fri May 05, 2006 6:04 pm

Spence wrote:Goes to show you the relative strength of the B-12 north.
Actually, if we compare Purdue against TCU, that year, something interesting follows:

Purdue's losses:
USC (Pigskin Classic) 17-27. Notre Dame (S. Bend, IN) 30-31, Wisconsin 24-31 (Madison, WI) and Penn St. 13-31 (Happy Valley, PN).

Penn St. lost 3 games all season long, to Ohio St (Columbus, OH) 9-28, Michigan (Ann Arbor) 0-27, and Wisconsin (Madison) 3-24.

Michigan lost 3 games, all season long: To Notre Dame (S. Bend, IN) 20-38, Syracuse 28-38 (Ann Arbor, MI) and Ohio St. 16-31 (Columbus, OH).

Notre Dame lost two games prior to the Gator Bowl, to Michigan St. (E. Lansing, MI) 23-45 and to S. California 0-10.

Now follow my logic through, if you can. Purdue, beating Rice by a razor-thin margin (21-19) in E. Lafayette, IN, suggest Purdue and TCU were 'on par' with each other, notwithstanding TCU's loss to Rice, 12-14, later that year.

TCU beating USC 28-19 'suggests' TCU was better than Notre Dame, who lost to them, one game prior to their bowl pairing against Ga. Tech (co-ACC champions).

That's an 'objective' analysis, folks, and it's made in part through Purdue beating K-State, in the Alamo Bowl. If Purdue is necesssarily 'better', then TCU by nature of their win over USC, is comparable, if not better, since Purdue lost to Notre Dame, and USC, and barely scraped by with a win over Rice.

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Postby Spence » Fri May 05, 2006 7:42 pm

That's an 'objective' analysis, folks, and it's made in part through Purdue beating K-State, in the Alamo Bowl. If Purdue is necesssarily 'better', then TCU by nature of their win over USC, is comparable, if not better, since Purdue lost to Notre Dame, and USC, and barely scraped by with a win over Rice.


Objective? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why would you even want to compare a team to Purdue that year. Purdue went to the Alamo Bowl. That means they were #4 or #5 in the B-10. Big deal.

Did you ever stop to think that when a coach is playing a team they know they can beat (Rice) they tend not to want to put anything on tape that will hurt them down the road? That is how most upsets happen when teams are that far a part in terms of talent. Especially early in the year.

John Cooper used to let it all hang out during the season. From start to finish, he would crush OOC teams early. Then as the season wore on every team had our tendencies down. By the time the end of the season came the other teams knew the offense as good as the Ohio State players did.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby Eric » Fri May 05, 2006 11:59 pm

This argument has gone on long enough. I'm getting tired of it, so I shall discontinue posting on this subject. Everybody else have a good next 3 years debating this topic :lol:
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 11-32

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Postby Spence » Sun May 07, 2006 3:12 pm

I'm assuming you are talking 'in jest'. (not 'gest' since I can't use that word, anymore).


You assumed correctly.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby colorado_loves_football » Sun May 07, 2006 4:09 pm

ktffan wrote:
Spence wrote:You assumed correctly..


Only goes to prove that Purdue should have made a BCS bowl.
I'm assuming you are talking 'in jest'. (not 'gest' since I can't use that word, anymore).


If I may I'd like to comment on something, which people here may (or may not) agree with.

First of all, I appreciate that we all have a 'unique' perspective on the sport. That's apparent in many respects, as we have some (Spence) who have actually played intercollegiately. I have zero experience, at any level, unless you count grade school (I don't). I guess that puts me at a disadvantage.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I base my views on 'evidence' that may be viewed as inconsequential by some. I don't necessarily mind that there are those who don't like my opinion, and maybe they're justified.

Nevertheless, I'm not trying to present a 'controversial' position here, just a 'different' one than maybe you're accustomed to.

For example, I made the 'argument' that TCU likely was 'better' than Purdue, mostly in 'jest' because I think there was circumstantial evidence that supported it. Rice scheduling (and losing) to Purdue, maybe 'defeated' it, but given the circumstances, I think it was still a 'valid' if not altogether 'foolproof' analysis, partly because it included Notre Dame.

Anyway, I guess all I'm getting at is that I dont' necessarily expect anyone to accept my positions at face-value. Neither do I necessarily want you to adopt my philosophy. I just like the idea that we can debate things, and maybe arrive to some kind of 'concensus', somewhere amidst the banter.

For example. We have argued, inside-and-out the politics, as well as the actual procedures whereby the BCS either 'accepts' or 'rejects' a team.
Some believe they are 'fair' in that they rely on their own standards, and thereby it's a 'fair' arrangment. I would argue they have implemented next-to-impossible procedures which necessarily 'exclude' most of the 'non-BCS' schools. My hope is that we can come to some kind of 'agreement' about what might work, in the interest of the entire NCAA.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe the BCS is 'fair'. Nor do I believe it necessarily is a true 'reflection' of which teams necessarily 'earn' it, through direct representation (which it could). I'm not opening up another line of debate, I simply am stating my position.

Do I like how it pairs the #1 and #2 team together? Sure. Who doesn't?
But it doesn't do it in a way that allows any team 'fair' opportunity, regardless of where they play. Lest you think I'm arguing solely on behalf of TCU, I believe there has been, minimally, one team EVERY year that has been 'rejected' by the BCS. 2000, 2005 TCU was the 'scapegoat. 1998, Tulane. 1999, Marshall. 2001 Brigham Young (even if they beat Hawaii they aren't selected). Louisville at 10-1 was a deserving candidate. 2002, was maybe an exception, but TCU at 10-2 still was pretty good. 2003, I think Miami, OH deserved an opportunity.
2004, Utah made it, but Louisville and Boise St were denied. Add them up, that's 8 team altogether, in eight years. Or, one a year.

Now, did TCU necessarily meet BCS qualifying standards, 2005? No.
That really never was my point. My point was that there was a team, sufficiently 'qualified' had a 5 bowl BCS been in place. Since it wasn't we'll never know for sure whether (or not) TCU 'earned' a spot, based on their overall W/L record. But, Oklahoma beating Oregon in the Holiday Bowl, if nothing else, suggests they likely were. End of argument.
Last edited by colorado_loves_football on Sun May 07, 2006 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ktffan » Mon May 08, 2006 9:19 am

colorado_loves_football wrote: Now, did TCU necessarily meet BCS qualifying standards, 2005? No.
That really never was my point. My point was that there was a team, sufficiently 'qualified' had a 5 bowl BCS been in place. Since it wasn't we'll never know for sure whether (or not) TCU 'earned' a spot, based on their overall W/L record. But, Oklahoma beating Oregon in the Holiday Bowl, if nothing else, suggests they likely were. End of argument.


Ok, I guess I can't disagree with that much.


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