We are...

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Derek
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Re: We are...

Postby Derek » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:10 pm

You start too see how good Dixon was, and why I would still give him the Trophy.

Without him, the Ducks struggle offensively.

You would think that the voters for the Heisman would notice this, but I doubt it. 8)
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

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See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.

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Re: We are...

Postby openSkies » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:02 pm

We are...

Virginia Tech!

Sorry, I've heard it so many times this year it's become ingrained into my deepest thoughts.
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RazorHawk
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Re: We are...

Postby RazorHawk » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:37 am

Derek wrote:You start too see how good Dixon was, and why I would still give him the Trophy.

Without him, the Ducks struggle offensively.

You would think that the voters for the Heisman would notice this, but I doubt it. 8)
Not sure that how valuable you are to your respective team is what is written on the Heisman trophy. If that were the case, it would be a disadvantage to be on a team surrounded by other great players. Probably many fewer of the USC Trojans would have won the Heisman.

I think it is supposed to be the best college football player.

All the different interpretations of the award have made it more of a team event lately. My prediction is Tebow, McFadden, then Hixon

Oh and to respond to the thread: We are..... Penn St
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Re: We are...

Postby donovan » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:10 pm

...a blip in the memory of time.....
Statistics are the Morphine of College Football

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Derek
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Re: We are...

Postby Derek » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:53 pm

collegefbfan8898 wrote:During a game about three weeks ago, I heard Herbie or someone else say: The Heisman should go to a player where his team would not be that good/great without him.

I feel that this describes Dixon. The record certainly shows that.


I agree with this.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.

- John Madden

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Re: We are...

Postby RazorHawk » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:09 am

I see the finish Tebow, McFadden, Dixon and believe 1st place votes for Dixon will help McFadden.
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Re: We are...

Postby Vileborg » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:02 am

The only problem with Dixon for heisman is the STUPID voters want their hesiman pick to be the best player the NFL has ever seen, and with Dixon's injury I can't see their pompous arrogance selecting someone who suffered a possibly career ending injury. I've been wrong a lot this year in my perceptions of how things should go, and I can only hope that I'm wrong on this count.

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Re: We are...

Postby donovan » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:14 am

I think in general Vileborg is correct. Voters want validation for their pick. Pollsters vote so in the end their earliest pick was number one. In a general sense, many people learn not to improve but to justify and validate what they already believe. I think awards are not much different. I think awards should be for current performance, not some hope of the future.
Statistics are the Morphine of College Football

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Re: We are...

Postby Spence » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:20 am

I'm not sure that the voters are looking for the pick who has the best NFL future. If they were they wouldn't have given the Heisman to Troy Smith last year. I think it was fairly well known that the odds were stacked against him in terms of being a successful NFL QB. At 6' not many QB's are successful in the NFL.
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Re: We are...

Postby Dossenator » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:15 am

collegefbfan8898....Kirk Herbstreit said night before last on Sports Center that if the Heisman is supposed to go to the best player in college football then McFadden should win the award this year. He said that Tebow has had a great year but he felt that McFadden was the best player.

I agree Spence that the voters do not look at who they think will have the best NFL future or an NFL future at all. However, it is my belief if you are the best college football player in the country then you should be able to have a decent shot at playing at the next level. Just putting up huge stats does not make you the best player in college football. We have had Heisman trophy winners who have not even been drafted.......like Jason White from OU. No way he was the best player in the nation if he was not even drafted by the NFL. So many other factors go into determining who the best player is. If I was a voter I would ask myself this one question: if I was building a team from scratch and I had the first pick out of every player in college football who would I want to build the team around.....so basically who is the best player? All the other nonsense factors would be left out of the equation: how many wins does the team have, what school does he play for, what grade are they in, are they in the championship game, etc.

The other thing with Tebow is he touches the ball on every play.....if Florida runs 80 plays....then he touches the ball 80 times. McFadden touches the ball about 25 times a game....I think 2 times this year he touched the ball over 30 times....and the LSU game was the only game where he touched the ball over 40 times I believe. Florida has no running back....so Tebow runs the ball on running plays. Then on passing plays he throws the ball. Floridas lack of a running game is one reason he has put up so many rushing yards and rushing TD's.....I do understand you have to be good to get the numbers. Other QB's could put up numbers like Tebow did this year but they have running games: such has Dixon at oregon, or Pat White at WV...they could do what Tebow did this year but they have great RB's to compliment them. Heck, I think McFadden could do it too if he was the QB all the time. However, if Florida gets a running back this next year then Tebow's numbers will go down.....and this is another argument I hear from the ESPN guys....you have to give Tebow the trophy this year because if Florida has a running back next year then Tebow's numbers will dropped drastically....and it would not be fair to him to not have a shot at winning the award next year. How come the same thing did not apply to McFadden last year....he probably should have won the award last year but did not have a shot because he was a shophmore, and played for Ark. This year he easily surpassed all of his numbers in 1 fewer game and still has a game left....he also set the SEC alltime all purpose yard total for a single season, the single game SEC rushing record at 321, and is only the 2nd back to rush for over 1,000 yards in his freshman, sophmore, and juniors years in the SEC.

However, I watch and listen to all the sports shows, as well as go to all the websites, and I think Tebow has the Heisman easily. I think the other issue that comes into play is what school the players play for. Tebow is putting up huge numbers...but he is not the only Freshman or Sophmore that might have deserved to win the award in the past. Why this year would they give the award to a sophmore and not in the past....because McFadden plays for Ark and Tebow plays for Florida. Florida is more glamorous. Also, I am sick of the sports guys talking about Ark having 4 losses....they say that is a major reason that Tebow will win the award....have these guys failed to look at Floridas schedule....they have 3 losses. But I heard a couple of idiot ESPN analyst say that Florida has 3 losses but they almost beat LSU so you really can't count that lose....well Ark only lost by 2 to Auburn (had the lead until 15 seconds left in the game) and to Bama by 3 (had the lead until about 15 seconds in that game as well)....so does Ark have to count those losses.

I do think McFadden will finish 2nd in the voting.....only 2 other players have ever been 2 time runner ups for the Heisman....McFadden would make 3.
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).

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Re: We are...

Postby Spence » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:35 pm

The Heisman isn't for the best player in CFB. It is listed as an award for the most outstanding CFB. That wording leaves it open for interpretation. Is the most outstanding player the MVP, because if that is true either Dennis Dixon or Pat White are the picks. Is it the best player? That would probably be McFadden, although there are several players who don't play a skill position that may actually turn out to have the best careers because RB's aren't usually guys who last very long in the NFL. Is it the guy who had the best season? If that is the case then it is hard to argue against Tebow. He is responsible for over 50 TDs, half of them running, that is a pretty outstanding year in my book.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: We are...

Postby Jason G » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:27 pm

Spence wrote:The Heisman isn't for the best player in CFB. It is listed as an award for the most outstanding CFB. That wording leaves it open for interpretation. Is the most outstanding player the MVP, because if that is true either Dennis Dixon or Pat White are the picks. Is it the best player? That would probably be McFadden, although there are several players who don't play a skill position that may actually turn out to have the best careers because RB's aren't usually guys who last very long in the NFL. Is it the guy who had the best season? If that is the case then it is hard to argue against Tebow. He is responsible for over 50 TDs, half of them running, that is a pretty outstanding year in my book.


If this was the way it was then Brennan and McFadden (who does everything) would have to be right there with Tebow. I don't think Tebow's season has been much better, if at all, than the ones had by those two guys especially considering Brennan's time out due to injury and the fact that his supporting cast isn't as good as Tebow's.

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Re: We are...

Postby Derek » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:40 am

donovan wrote:I think in general Vileborg is correct. Voters want validation for their pick. Pollsters vote so in the end their earliest pick was number one. In a general sense, many people learn not to improve but to justify and validate what they already believe. I think awards are not much different. I think awards should be for current performance, not some hope of the future.


BAM!!!! Well said!! 8) 8)
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.

- John Madden


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