NCAA ranked offenses vs NCAA ranked defenses....if you have a ranked offense, is it because you didn't play many ranked defenses...or if you have ranked defenses does it mean your offenses weren't good....since the two sides of the coin interact...I don't know if there is an answer...
TOTAL DEFENSE:
PAC 10......No real defensive strength in the conference as measured by rankings..
none ranked...Oregon at #44 in Total Defense was the highest ranked...44, 46, 48, 84, 86, 94, 105, 106, 113, 114
B-12...the top half of conference scores well
three ranked...10, 11, 13, 26, 30, 35, 41, 45, 50, 63, 95, 107,
B-10...weak after top three
two ranked....5, 12, 36, 67, 87, 90, 92, 93, 100, 115, 117
ACC....tough!....back end tougher than B-10
seven ranked...1, 4, 8, 14, 16, 20, 22, 42, 43, 60, 69, 89
SEC.....tough..back end tougher than B-10
six ranked...2, 3, 7, 9, 18, 19, 27, 29, 34, 47, 72, 103
Now, the egg...TOTAL OFFENSE
PAC 10...strong showing in first seven....
five ranked...1, 2, 8, 18, 23, 26, 34, 69, 74, 99
Big 12...real uneven...haves vs have nots
four ranked...3, 6, 17, 24, 71, 76, 83, 87, 88, 92, 96, 97
Big 10...top seven ranked well
five ranked...4, 5, 7, 22, 25, 32, 33, 45, 55, 72, 75
ACC...no offensive rankings below #50
51, 53, 56, 57, 59, 64, 68, 73, 78, 102, 103, 116
SEC....similar to ACC
37, 46, 49, 60, 61, 66, 67, 90, 100, 107, 111, 113
HMMMM...
No surprises in the Chicken and the Egg review....the toughest ranked defensive conferences don't rank well offensively and vice versa.
The Chicken and the Egg
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The Chicken and the Egg
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
So you think the ACC is the strongest conference? With the SEC a VERY close 2nd???
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.
The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.
See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.
- John Madden
The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.
See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.
- John Madden
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Spence
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I was going to bring this up in the other post. Are defenses good if they play weak offenses and are offenses good if they play weak defenses? Of course if you really could figure those questions, picking the top 10 teams in the country would be easy.
You are right about the B-10 not playing much defense last year. It has been a trend in the B-10, started by Joe Tiller. I have no idea why. I believe and will always believe that the secret to being an outstanding football team lies with the defense. Offense scores points with voters. People respond to offense, but if you want to win consistantly you have to do it with defense. All a good offense has to do to have an off day is to run into a good defense.
You are right about the B-10 not playing much defense last year. It has been a trend in the B-10, started by Joe Tiller. I have no idea why. I believe and will always believe that the secret to being an outstanding football team lies with the defense. Offense scores points with voters. People respond to offense, but if you want to win consistantly you have to do it with defense. All a good offense has to do to have an off day is to run into a good defense.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
Derek wrote
huh? Where did you get that? Taking lessons from CLF in making up what folks post? I posted rankings...gave no opinion.
Blackpowdereer wrote:
Actually, I got tired..it took some time to go through the five conferences and it was getting late, so I called it a night. You seem to be suffering from "short man's syndrome". Its not always about the Big East.
However...
I will follow with stats for Big East....go wipe your eyes.
So you think the ACC is the strongest conference? With the SEC a VERY close 2nd???
huh? Where did you get that? Taking lessons from CLF in making up what folks post? I posted rankings...gave no opinion.
Blackpowdereer wrote:
Ummmm is there a reason that you left the Big East off your breakdown? Or is this just another subtle shot at us?
I suspect I already know the answer.
Actually, I got tired..it took some time to go through the five conferences and it was getting late, so I called it a night. You seem to be suffering from "short man's syndrome". Its not always about the Big East.
However...
I will follow with stats for Big East....go wipe your eyes.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
There isn't really a ready answer for "best conference"....as I posted, it's difficult to just look at defensive and offensive rankings and make such pronouncements...the good defenses limit offenses and the good offenses make defenses look weaker...and SOS is important..playing an 8 win Nevada is different than playing an 8 win FSU. One reason we all love interregional match ups, is it gives a glimpse of comparisons.
I do believe that the conferences do have different personalities...the ACC and the SEC do stress defense...(note the numbers of ACC athletes drafted who were defensive players vs offense in the first two rounds)...the west coast, to this southern boy, has seemed to be more offensively oriented...The Big Ten goes back and forth...a mix of both by team and year...last year was not a great year for Big Ten defense.
The BIG EAST...BIG EAST...(please notice, Blackpowdereer) is too new for me to have a feeling of personality.
I do believe that the conferences do have different personalities...the ACC and the SEC do stress defense...(note the numbers of ACC athletes drafted who were defensive players vs offense in the first two rounds)...the west coast, to this southern boy, has seemed to be more offensively oriented...The Big Ten goes back and forth...a mix of both by team and year...last year was not a great year for Big Ten defense.
The BIG EAST...BIG EAST...(please notice, Blackpowdereer) is too new for me to have a feeling of personality.
Last edited by billybud on Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
There are probably dozens who "rate" conferences...
Sagarin's 2005 conference rankings, for what they are worth:
1 BIG TEN (A) = 80.72 80.55 ( 1) 11
2 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 78.96 78.26 ( 4) 12
3 BIG 12 (A) = 78.96 80.02 ( 2) 12
4 PAC-10 (A) = 77.92 78.65 ( 3) 10
5 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 75.28 74.92 ( 6) 12
6 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 74.44 75.02 ( 5) 3
7 BIG EAST (A) = 72.12 72.42 ( 7) 8
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 69.51 69.58 (
9
9 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 65.02 64.69 ( 9) 12
10 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 63.20 62.28 ( 10) 13
THe ACC and B-12 are really tied or very close...and the PAC 10 isn't far removed...real close groupings
Sagarin's 2005 conference rankings, for what they are worth:
1 BIG TEN (A) = 80.72 80.55 ( 1) 11
2 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 78.96 78.26 ( 4) 12
3 BIG 12 (A) = 78.96 80.02 ( 2) 12
4 PAC-10 (A) = 77.92 78.65 ( 3) 10
5 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 75.28 74.92 ( 6) 12
6 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 74.44 75.02 ( 5) 3
7 BIG EAST (A) = 72.12 72.42 ( 7) 8
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 69.51 69.58 (
9
9 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 65.02 64.69 ( 9) 12
10 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 63.20 62.28 ( 10) 13
THe ACC and B-12 are really tied or very close...and the PAC 10 isn't far removed...real close groupings
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
Yeah right....HAHAHA!! Pac-10 ahead of the SEC?
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.
The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.
See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.
- John Madden
The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.
See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.
- John Madden
I guess everyone has their own criteria.......
I guess one could submit their criteria and rankings and we could all comment....that, of course takes more effort than a quickly typed..."yeah, right!"
I guess one could submit their criteria and rankings and we could all comment....that, of course takes more effort than a quickly typed..."yeah, right!"
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
The SEC, as a whole, was dragged down by really dreadful teams at the back of the conference.
Kentucky (92), Mississippi (102) and Mississippi (107), dragged down the SEC...Sagarin has the SEC having five teams in the Top 35..(vs 7 for the ACC and 8 for Big Ten, and 5 for the PAC 10)...
The SEC had five teams ranked above #60....vs 2 teams for the ACC and 2 for the Big Ten, 2 in the PAC 10
The middle and back of the SEC were not as strong as some years...although LSU, Bama, Georgia, and Florida were good....Tennessee, Arkansas and Vandy were ranked above #60, South Carolina was middlin', and Mississippi, Mississippi St, and Kentucky were bad .
Kentucky (92), Mississippi (102) and Mississippi (107), dragged down the SEC...Sagarin has the SEC having five teams in the Top 35..(vs 7 for the ACC and 8 for Big Ten, and 5 for the PAC 10)...
The SEC had five teams ranked above #60....vs 2 teams for the ACC and 2 for the Big Ten, 2 in the PAC 10
The middle and back of the SEC were not as strong as some years...although LSU, Bama, Georgia, and Florida were good....Tennessee, Arkansas and Vandy were ranked above #60, South Carolina was middlin', and Mississippi, Mississippi St, and Kentucky were bad .
Last edited by billybud on Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
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colorado_loves_football
Maybe I shouldn't take it this way, but I think thats' an indirect (or maybe direct) slam against TCU for playing in the MWC. Nevertheless, you are likely correct that teams that play against relatively 'lesser' from a competitive standpoint, are at an advantage over those that don't.Spence wrote:I was going to bring this up in the other post. Are defenses good if they play weak offenses and are offenses good if they play weak defenses? Of course if you really could figure those questions, picking the top 10 teams in the country would be easy.
But, the MWC, while not yet a 'major' conference, and known more for offensive ability over defensive, still 'holds it's own' as demonstrated by Utah, in the 2005 Fiesta Bowl. But, no, it's probably not a 'fair' comparision, unless some of the teams being represented are non-MWC.
I'll take defense over offense any day of the week (especially on Saturday).Spence wrote:You are right about the B-10 not playing much defense last year. It has been a trend in the B-10, started by Joe Tiller. I have no idea why. I believe and will always believe that the secret to being an outstanding football team lies with the defense. Offense scores points with voters. People respond to offense, but if you want to win consistantly you have to do it with defense. All a good offense has to do to have an off day is to run into a good defense.
THE MWC did not play Utah....one team did....
And TCU, playing in the SEC, Big Ten or ACC would have been lucky to win eight games. TCU is shooting par, but from the ladies tee.
I like defense myself...as Micky says, "if they don't score, you win". The goal of FSU defenses is to hold the opponent to two TD's...if the offense can't beat 14 points...shame on them.
The old adage..."The offense sells tickets but the defense wins championships", isn't really true....you do need some balance.
"Teams" win championships. You can have the best defense in the NFL, but if your offense is horrible it unlikely that you'll win a champiosnhip (look at the 1977 Falcons who gave up the fewest ppg in NFL histrory and failed to even make the playoffs; or the 2005 Bears).
Even the greatest defensive teams (1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens) can't win entirely on their own. I believe that the 1985 Bears still hold the record for most rushing yards in a season, and the 2000 Ravens had a very good running game and an exceptional special teams unit.
And TCU, playing in the SEC, Big Ten or ACC would have been lucky to win eight games. TCU is shooting par, but from the ladies tee.
I like defense myself...as Micky says, "if they don't score, you win". The goal of FSU defenses is to hold the opponent to two TD's...if the offense can't beat 14 points...shame on them.
The old adage..."The offense sells tickets but the defense wins championships", isn't really true....you do need some balance.
"Teams" win championships. You can have the best defense in the NFL, but if your offense is horrible it unlikely that you'll win a champiosnhip (look at the 1977 Falcons who gave up the fewest ppg in NFL histrory and failed to even make the playoffs; or the 2005 Bears).
Even the greatest defensive teams (1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens) can't win entirely on their own. I believe that the 1985 Bears still hold the record for most rushing yards in a season, and the 2000 Ravens had a very good running game and an exceptional special teams unit.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
RE "playing Utah"..as some sort of measure
I count nine teams that FSU played last year ranked as more powerful than Utah (9 by Sagarin, 9 by Massey)...a whole schedule full of teams tougher than Utah....
I count nine teams that FSU played last year ranked as more powerful than Utah (9 by Sagarin, 9 by Massey)...a whole schedule full of teams tougher than Utah....
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
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Yeofoot
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The game that comes to mind for me was Texas vs Kansas this year, they had something a top 5 defense. Then of course Texas went up 51-0 in the first half.
On overall rankings of conferences, you really can't quantify what makes one conference better than the other. I think, with the BCS conferences, their all-conference teams are all on the same talent level. The difference between whose overall better, depends on what you define as "being better than". The Big 12, Pac 10, and Big 10 have people on their #1 teams 3rd string that would start for the bottom 8 teams in their respective conferences.
EG:
Ohio State's 3rd string Defensive tackle would start for Purdue.
USC's 3rd string runningback would start for Oregon State.
Texas' 3rd string DB would start for Kansas State.
I feel like the SEC, ACC, and The Big East, their talent is more spread around the conference. Because they have so many good teams that can compete for the title each year, they can go to a team that has an opening for them on the roster, without going to a second tier school.
On overall rankings of conferences, you really can't quantify what makes one conference better than the other. I think, with the BCS conferences, their all-conference teams are all on the same talent level. The difference between whose overall better, depends on what you define as "being better than". The Big 12, Pac 10, and Big 10 have people on their #1 teams 3rd string that would start for the bottom 8 teams in their respective conferences.
EG:
Ohio State's 3rd string Defensive tackle would start for Purdue.
USC's 3rd string runningback would start for Oregon State.
Texas' 3rd string DB would start for Kansas State.
I feel like the SEC, ACC, and The Big East, their talent is more spread around the conference. Because they have so many good teams that can compete for the title each year, they can go to a team that has an opening for them on the roster, without going to a second tier school.
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