William Arkin

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William Arkin

Postby Eric » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:19 pm

This was on the O'Reilly Factor last night. So, the NBC Military analyst goes out and personally attacks the troops in his Washingtonpost.com blog:


I've been mulling over an NBC Nightly News report from Iraq last Friday in which a number of soldiers expressed frustration with opposition to war in the United States.

I'm sure the soldiers were expressing a majority opinion common amongst the ranks - that's why it is news - and I'm also sure no one in the military leadership or the administration put the soldiers up to expressing their views, nor steered NBC reporter Richard Engel to the story.

I'm all for everyone expressing their opinion, even those who wear the uniform of the United States Army. But I also hope that military commanders took the soldiers aside after the story and explained to them why it wasn't for them to disapprove of the American people.

Friday's NBC Nightly News included a story from my colleague and friend Richard Engel, who was embedded with an active duty Army infantry battalion from Fort Lewis, Washington.

Engel relayed how "troops here say they are increasingly frustrated by American criticism of the war. Many take it personally, believing it is also criticism of what they've been fighting for."

First up was 21 year old junior enlisted man Tyler Johnson, whom Engel said was frustrated about war skepticism and thinks that critics "should come over and see what it's like firsthand before criticizing."

"You may support or say we support the troops, but, so you're not supporting what they do, what they're here sweating for, what we bleed for, what we die for. It just don't make sense to me," Johnson said.

Next up was Staff Sergeant Manuel Sahagun, who is on his second tour in Iraq. He complained that "one thing I don't like is when people back home say they support the troops, but they don't support the war. If they're going to support us, support us all the way."

Next was Specialist Peter Manna: "If they don't think we're doing a good job, everything that we've done here is all in vain," he said.

These soldiers should be grateful that the American public, which by all polls overwhelmingly disapproves of the Iraq war and the President's handling of it, do still offer their support to them, and their respect.

Through every Abu Ghraib and Haditha, through every rape and murder, the American public has indulged those in uniform, accepting that the incidents were the product of bad apples or even of some administration or command order.

Sure, it is the junior enlisted men who go to jail. But even at anti-war protests, the focus is firmly on the White House and the policy. We don't see very many "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.

So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?

I can imagine some post-9/11 moment, when the American people say enough already with the wars against terrorism and those in the national security establishment feel these same frustrations. In my little parable, those in leadership positions shake their heads that the people don't get it, that they don't understand that the threat from terrorism, while difficult to defeat, demands commitment and sacrifice and is very real because it is so shadowy, that the very survival of the United States is at stake. Those Hoovers and Nixons will use these kids in uniform as their soldiers. If it weren't about the United States, I'd say the story would end with a military coup where those in the know, and those with fire in their bellies, would save the nation from the people.

But it is the United States, and the recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.

The notion of dirty work is that, like laundry, it is something that has to be done but no one else wants to do it. But Iraq is not dirty work: it is not some necessary endeavor; the people just don't believe that anymore.

I'll accept that the soldiers, in order to soldier on, have to believe that they are manning the parapet, and that's where their frustrations come in. I'll accept as well that they are young and naïve and are frustrated with their own lack of progress and the never changing situation in Iraq. Cut off from society and constantly told that everyone supports them, no wonder the debate back home confuses them.

America needs to ponder what it is we really owe those in uniform. I don't believe America needs a draft though I imagine we'd be having a different discussion if we had one.



I'm mad :evil:

Calling the troops "mercenaries" is absolutely, totally uncalled for. This article was very condescending and had the usual leftist "you stupid, uneducated, naive, pawn" tone to it. He made it sound like the TROOPS owe US a favor :shock:

And guess what he said in his follow-up column this morning? You guessed it, the old, tired "bad choice of words" argument :roll: . He said he didn't mean it literally :?
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Postby Derek » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:30 pm

Yeah, he's an idiot.

I dont mind that people disagree with Iraq, or dont go along with every single decision that has been made. But this is ridiculous.

Wanna see the truth about the parallel's between Bush and Lincoln in this war??

http://mistersnitch.blogspot.com/2005/08/bad-press-for-president.html

I dont normally read this blog, but I found it after doing a Google search....I also believe in the First amendment and freedom of speech and press....but the things that the NY Times has done is beyond treason. Publishing story's about classified operations after the administration asked them not too, is LUDICROUS, and someone needs to pay the price!!! Im tired of hearing about these degenerates, and wish Bush had the "ball's" to do the things Lincoln did.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

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Postby Eric » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:30 pm

Yeah, I mean, there is a difference between disagreeing with the Iraq policy/strategy and being a military hater. There isn't much denying it, Arkin is anti-military. The most ironic thing about this, soldiers from all of these generations fought for his right to say this insane thinking.

If you watch Hannity & Colmes from time to time, Colmes always tries to bring up their 1st ammendment freedoms. Well, of course, nobody besides the lunatics on the fringe would debate a person's right to say or do something that isn't law-breaking. They can't seem to draw the lines about shouldn't and can't. When a person tries to dispute someone's looney thoughts, they think it's an attack on their freedom of speech. It's an attack on what they said, not their right to say it.
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Postby ..fanatic » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:27 am

The proliferation of stupidity in this country is driving me crazy. Everyone is like a sports team bandwagon jumper. There was a time when Bush's approval rating was 90%. Now it's like 35%. Why? Tell me a truly defining moment that merits that swing - there isn't one. It's all media-driven.

When Bush was getting glowing reports in the liberal media for his responses to the 9/11 attacks, his approval ratings went up. After all, who could argue with a president's retaliation for an attack on our country. But soon, the liberals said "Wait a minute, that's a republican you're propping up and if you keep this up we liberals will never win another election".

So the liberal media ramped up their slanted attacks on Bush, and approval numbers plummeted. More people said he was stupid because they were told every day by the media that he's stupid.

Still, he won re-election.

So the liberal media became even more conspiratorial and began dumping on ALL republicans, proppping up ALL liberals and going full-throttle on the attack on Bush.

We're in a war against terrorists on THEIR soil - there haven't been any more attacks on our soil - the war on terror has killed or captured numerous terrorist combatants and leaders - and we will be fighting this war, in some capacity for many more years. That's what we were promised. That's what we have.

As for Iraq being labeled a disaster - what's so shocking. Kurds, Sunni's and Shiite have been at odds for decades, if not centuries, in the middle east. They are not used to democracy. They are not used to being able to fight back.

As for American soldiers not winning the war and doing noble work - again, if the media tells you something over and over again, morons begin to believe it. Morons are incapable of developing an original thought - morons have to be told what to think or the smart people will win. This is the role of the liberal media.

A recent poll of morons said that nearly 60% of "Americans" think Congress should handle war policy and only 22% said Bush. Only 22% said the Commander-In-Chief should handle war policy. Nearly 60% want an hourly, daily, weekly debate over every war issue - thereby putting every war issue under public scrutiny - as though these politicians have any freaking clue how to fight a war. Want to see Vietnam again? Congressional intervention is what gave us the results of Vietnam.

What I wish is that the media would just shut up and pretend the war doesn't even exist. Then, the military can fight the battles and not have to constantly be distracted by fighting all of the politcal garbage.

I also love how all the liberals want us to leave Iraq. Why does no one pick up on the fact that the message democrats are sending is that they don't care about those people. They're basically saying "Screw the Iraqis. We don't deserve to have our soldiers die for your freedom. You don't deserve democracy. We should have just left Saddam and his brothers there to torture you because then we wouldn't be in this mess."

Then you get the hard-core pacifists who basically sit around saying "Oh, so they blow something up that belongs to us every once in awhile - they're not bad people, they're just frustrated. They're not terrorists, they're freedom fighters. War is bad. Let's go to a peace march."

MORONS.

Saw a bumper sticker today. It read "Want More of the Same? Vote the Same". My first thought was anger. My second thought was "Don't Worry, I will". I surely have to help defeat the morons.
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Postby Spence » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:56 am

Good post. What seems to be lost in all of this, is that at the time almost everyone in congress agreed with the decision to go to war based on the information at the time. The Arabs are right about this nation, we don't have the stomach to win a war.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby Eric » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:52 pm

About the media, everything is under a microscope. The amount of news coverage today makes that happen.

So, Iraq has gone badly. I don't think there's any doubt about that. But a lot of fringe people (like William Arkin) keep on saying "we're losing". Well, I dont' entirely agree. The American military has done their part. I think the Iraqi people are losing this war. We've defeated the enemy for the most part. There are only little pockets of insurgents remaining. Iraqis have to step up and take control of the country and try to put their differences aside.

But, you know, the Bush administration has to take some responsibility. In hindsight, we should've seen this sectarian violence coming.

Great post, ..fanatic. A lot of those people aren't capable of independent thought. If I hear it from Brian Williams, Charlie Gibson, or Katie Couric, then it must be true. Never mind the fact that there is an agenda behind the news coverage.

That's exactly what they're saying, the Democrats, champions of the downtrodden :roll: Oh, and the anti-racists who put enough pressure on Bush to stop his deal with the U.A.E. and the ports thing.....Because they're Arabs :roll:
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Postby mountainman » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:32 pm

Nice rant, fanatic ....... your message disproves a long standing perception that a Mountaineer and a Hokie can never agree on anything. :wink:

If politics has proven anything in the past it's that when the politicians advance the wrong choice in matters such as the War on Terrorism, people suffer and die.

I would hope that people would think for themselves ..... because in the final analysis they're the ones the consequences of bad political choices impact the most.

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Postby Spence » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:08 pm

I think the reason for the war going so badly is the media. We are forced to fight antiseptic wars trying to eliminate collateral damage. The insurgents are fighting without rules. That makes it an almost impossible war to win. In war when you have your adversary down, you keep kicking him until he surrenders. The Iraqi government in place is too fragile to leave now. The reason we went to war is irrelevant now. History will judge whether or not we entered the war for the right reasons. Now that we are in the war the only option is to win. Anything else, including a pullout, would be disastrous for us long term. We cannot leave Iraq for the Iranians to control and that is what would happen.
Last edited by Spence on Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby Derek » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:56 pm

Good points on all these posts!!
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

See, well ya see, the thing is, he should have caught that ball. But the ball is bigger than his hands.

- John Madden


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