Next Four Years.....

[billybud]

LOL...you are talking to a 50 plus year Floridian about seafood. My dad owned a shrimp boat out of Pensacola (he didn't fish it, we had a captain). But I did crew some.

I do know our fish...I was assigned by the Governor's office to work with the legislature on seafood issues including state water harvesting...I was also tagged 25 years ago to help initiate aquaculture in Florida...we put in a Tilapia farming operation down in Hendry county as a pilot..we expanded to clam and oyster farming in the salt water after Tilapia took off. Tilapia, then rare, is now one of our commonly served fish although I don't eat it.

I don't really like cod, or haddock...Although they do great at Long John Silver's and similar chains. I'm a southern boy and prefer grouper, snapper, redfish, drum, pompano, flounder and even mahi to the cold water fishes.

[billybud]

Re supporting companies who outsource...

You have very little choice...that has been the dynamic of the growing global economy. Where New England textile factories once closed their doors to flee to the south for lower labor costs, they now flee to China, Pakistan and other third world countries. The global marketplace has exploded over the last 30 years. The only way to keep those jobs in America would be to be a protectionist, and maybe an isolationist country.

By the by...I buy ground chuck...or ground sirloin...what am I buying?

[billybud]

One of my worst political jobs was after Florida passed the Net ban constitutional amendment in the mid 90's (banned use of certain nets in state waters). I had to write a report for legislative action...my reward was to be tagged to gather all of the now illegal nets from the fishers for recycling...I gathered enough netting to run a wall of net 50 feet high from Tallahassee to Toronto.

I hired fleets of trucks, contracted with recycling companies (the nets became nylon kitchen utensils made in Indonesia), and had front endloaders at docks around Florida (and I also had an armed officer by my side)...the toughest job of a very varied and rewarding career.

[Spence]

By the by...I buy ground chuck...or ground sirloin...what am I buying?

If it says chuck, it has to be from the chuck. If it says sirloin it has to be sirloin.

I prefer not to have the parasites in my food found in warm water fish. Nothing against the taste. Haddock, as you probably know is a codfish. It has a little different consistency, but part of the same species. I don't like Tilapia either. My favorite junk fish is perch. Lots of bones, though. I like grouper, but it is hard for me to live with the worms. I do eat it when in the south, I do not like flounder at all.

I don't know fishing, but I know seafood. I buy seafood from all around the world.

[Eric]

I'm no seafood aficionado, but mostly the only fish I eat would either be catfish or cod. The salmon that I've had (which has only been like twice) is not really my thing. I'm up for any kind of shrimp any time of day though.

[Spence]

I'm not much for salmon either, any kind, but my wife loves it.

Re supporting companies who outsource...

You have very little choice...that has been the dynamic of the growing global economy. Where New England textile factories once closed their doors to flee to the south for lower labor costs, they now flee to China, Pakistan and other third world countries. The global marketplace has exploded over the last 30 years. The only way to keep those jobs in America would be to be a protectionist, and maybe an isolationist country.

Not much choice now, but then it was possible. The government was expanding and they needed people and resources so they got taxes up, and wages up -- through unions - so they could make it all work. Wages are not the problem. People could live on lots less money if they weren't paying 40% of everything they made in taxes. - and the number is that high - when you count all the hidden and passed on taxes included. The cost of wages compared to the cost of doing business is relatively the same. It is a fixed percentage that really just raises as the cost of living raises. I make more money then my father made, his money went further. The goverment keeps growing. That is the beast that must be fed. They prefer that the middle class blame the rich, the rich blame the poor, and the poor blame everyone. It takes people's eyes off of them.

You personally and Americans as a group would not be protectionist if the bought mostly American goods. The government would be if they imposed laws banning foreign goods or taxing them to make the cost more even. If Americans would look at all the cheaper options and buy American goods anyway, that would not be protectionist. We don't do that, we buy the cheaper, and sometimes better, goods manufactured in other countries. We chose to be in this position. We meaning us, the baby boomers, who want our cake and eat it too. We wanted everything, we wanted it cheaper, and we got it. Now this country has almost no manufacturing base. We have high tech jobs, and we have a lower paying service industry jobs. We also have absurdly high paying government jobs. We chose to pay people $25.00 an hour and more in benefits to put a nut on a bolt. Then we wonder why we lost our jobs to China.

We are reaping what we have sown. We have spent ourselves into oblivion. We have taught our children to get what they want when they want it. Now the system is colapsing under it's own weight. We are bailing out AIG, giving money to keep people who have mismanaged our money in business, only to expect a different result this time. There is a word for for that - doing the same thing and expecting a different result. We all know what it is.

[Eric]

Well put, Spence. It's the gimmie-gimmie-gimmie culture that probably will have pretty adverse affects on our economy. And we don't have anybody else to blame but ourselves.

[Spence]

Well put, Spence. It's the gimmie-gimmie-gimmie culture that probably will have pretty adverse affects on our economy. And we don't have anybody else to blame but ourselves.

Yes, and until we all recognize that we are the problem and quit blaming everyone else, it won't get better.

[Dossenator]

Actually we have the ability to fix that as consumers. If we refuse to buy the things that are made in places other then this country. The same people who complain about their jobs going overseas have houses loaded with products not made in this country. I don't see why they should be surprised they don't have a good job.

My grandfather only bought American made products during his life....well until the past 15 or 20 years. He found it almost impossible to do in todays world. I don't think I have a single item in my house that says made in America on it.

[Dossenator]

I'm no seafood aficionado, but mostly the only fish I eat would either be catfish or cod. The salmon that I've had (which has only been like twice) is not really my thing. I'm up for any kind of shrimp any time of day though.

It was if I had typed your statement myself. I only eat cod or catfish...and I love shrimp. I do like to fish for trout and they don't taste that bad. I have tried lots of other fish and seafood and not a big fan.

[Dossenator]

Wal-Mart is good for communties: Wal-Mart gives back more money to local communities than any other coorperation, and they offer goods at reduced prices. Look at their coorperate website and you will see that their pay and benefits are equal too or exceeds other jobs like the ones they offer. If people are not happy with it then why do they seek Wal-Mart out for jobs....and if people really think Wal-Mart is so bad why do they shop there. In California, Wal-Mart is considered a curse word. I found out very quickly that if I say I am from Bentonville, Arkansa that I might as well say that I am the devil himself. However, Wal-Marts in Southern California are always packed full of people....while the Target parking lots are never even half full. 2 years ago in a town close to downtown Los Angeles the very first Wal-Mart store was planning on going in....protesters lined the streets for months. They said they would boycot the store and not shop there. Now the parking lot is always full, the protesters are gone, and the people are now saying it was one of the best things to happen to their neighborhood.

Source: Wal-Mart official website (http://walmartstores.com/FactsNews/FactSheets/)

Here is what Wal-Mart did for local communities last year:
Wal-Mart is the Largest Corporate Cash Contributor in America. For the last two years, Wal-Mart has been recognized by the Chronicle of Philanthropy as the largest corporate cash contributor in America. Charitable contributions from Wal-Mart and the Wal-Mart Foundation support a variety of causes and issues in the areas of education, job skills training, sustainability, and health and human services. The majority of those contributions were made to organizations at the local level, based not just on corporate decisions, but also on recommendations from our associates. • In 2007, Wal-Mart stores, Sam’s Clubs and the Wal-Mart Foundation gave more than $296 million to 4,000-plus communities in the United States. • Wal-Mart’s international operations also support their local communities. Donations abroad in 2007 totaled more than $41 million. • In addition to philanthropic support provided by the company, Wal-Mart’s U.S. customers and associates donated more than $106 million in individual contributions through company-sponsored fundraisers. International customers and associates contributed an additional $30 million. • Wal-Mart donated $1 million or more to numerous charitable and community organizations including, but not limited to: Children’s Miracle Network, America’s Second Harvest, The Salvation Army, the American Red Cross, the United Way of America, National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, Hispanic Scholarship Fund, United Negro College Fund, Muscular Dystrophy Association, Mercy Health Systems, Special Olympics, and Boys & Girls Club of America.

To see benefits (http://walmartstores.com/Careers/Careers/7750.aspx), how Wal-Mart supports our troops, etc you can find it all on their website. Wal-Mart has almost 2 million employees and 92% of their employees have healthcare. I am not saying Wal-Mart does everything right. I am just saying they are not the anti-American enemy so many people try to make them out to be.

[donovan]

My grandfather only bought American made products during his life....well until the past 15 or 20 years. He found it almost impossible to do in todays world. I don't think I have a single item in my house that says made in America on it.

I suggested that to one of my kids when I visited, "You've got nothing here made in America!" He called his daughter over, my granddaughter and said....well somethings...

[Spence]

I suggested that to one of my kids when I visited, "You've got nothing here made in America!" He called his daughter over, my granddaughter and said....well somethings...

I like that a lot.


Doss, Walmart does give money back, like most companies. Walmart is also a cut throat business titan. They run so many specialty stores out of business. Not that, it is or should concern them. They are one of the best at what they do and they are extremely efficient. But to understand the sentiment you have to have been one of the local hardware owners, independent grocers, independent flower shops, and the sort. Good, bad, or indifferent Walmart is a huge corporation that cares only for their bottom line. Like any other business in the world Walmart cares about Walmart. The rest is just marketing. I don't view that as wrong, but they are what they are and we shouldn't make any more of it.

McDonald's gives millions and millions to children's charities every year. They sponsor everything from the Olympic's to my kid's 8 man soccer team. No matter what they do in this regard they will never make up for the health problems their restaurants will cause. Does that make them bad people - no. I don't know one person that was ever forced to walk in and place an order.

My point is, if we want to change how things are done, we need to support people and products we believe in - made by people we want to be successful. If that is Walmart for you, then that is fine. If you don't believe in their products, or what they stand for, then don't walk in. That is how you change things. We just shouldn't cry about how unfair or wrong something is and then support it.

[Dossenator]

That was the point I was trying to make but not saying it very well. A business is in business to make money. Bottom line.

As for Wal-Mart putting out small business....well, I just don't see it. Go to northwest Arkansas were every town has it's own Wal-Mart...some have more then one. The small businesses are still everywhere. The bakeries, the optomitrist, the auto and tire centers, the butcher shops, grocery stores, donut shops, flower shops, hair salons, etc. All goods and services that Wal-Mart provides but the local small businesses are everywhere. I don't see things much different in Southern California either. I can't speak for the rest of the country though. I am not in any way trying to defend Wal-Mart. I am trying to defend all business and the system of free market.

People always say that Wal-Mart makes more money then any other company as well. Yes they bring in more overall money but about 20 corporations make more profit the Wal-Mart....infact Wal-Mart is not even close to producing the same kind of profit that some companies do. Exxon makes 4 times the profit Wal-Mart does even though Wal-Mart brings in more overall money (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/). Not sure why Wal-Mart seems to be the only company that always gets beat up for doing what all the rest do....make money. I think it has to be that Wal-Mart refuses to go union.

[WoVeU]

Buying American...I wish I could do more of, but what a task.

I only by GM cars. I know that they are so far from 100% American it is almost a joke. But it is an American Company and still responsible for many jobs. I'm still outraged at certain media who tried to claim Jap and German cars were far superior in the late 80' through the early 90's. I found 0 evidence for that and I have worked on a good deal of cars...since about 1991, if someone I know had a car problem they came to me, so I've seen a few things. But people believed it lock, stock, and barrell and it killed the American Companies.

I know you can drive most any Chevy 200,000+ miles and only change a water pump, thermostat, front brake rotors, and an alternator. (That is about $235 in parts and I can change all of them in one 2 hour session.)

I have a '99 Camaro SS that has 400HP and when I drive it in commuter mode I get 32 MPG. Stock the car got 29MPG at 330HP, and the car couldn't compete with the rice-burners and Mustangs. People believe hype and what the media tells them (and they are usually FOS). {And I now laugh when I read on the Mustang sites and they warn all their pundits that their cars can not mess with a Camaro unless they put on a Supercharger and do a little exhaust work. (You can read similar on the rice-burner pages) And yet they get about 5 MPG less and don't handle quite as well.}

I've hurt some people's feeling when they find out that a 10 year old Chevy I have 14 grand in will blow their brand new 350Z off the road and get better gas mileage. You ought to see the look on their face!!!

We have brilliant consumers!