SEC Turned on its Head

[Duke1632]

Duke, it is absolutely as disturbing to most of us as it is to you. Some accept the reality of it and point out the flaws of the past, others want to continue the involvement and excitement of College Football and so we put up with it,discuss it like we care, when in fact we loathe it. But what is really good, is the character of the people on this site and for that, we put up with each other.

I speak only for myself, but that is how I see it. Many of us have been watching football when you had to be there in the cold and the mud, and the good times. I don't particularly like watching it on TV...I much rather go and be there, but I do a lot more TV now and when it seems right, I go to the game. Have not watched as much high school since coming to Oregon, but I like High School Football. For me....as I have said ad nauseum, go back to geographical football, play bowls assigned to conferences...I would be Ok with more bowls assigned to conference and be done on January 1 and make your case at the water cooler or some remote Tavern in South Carolina where cable is still just a piece of wire.......

PS...I don't think you should be playing a World Series in the middle of Winter either....another lunacy.

Very good points. I often tend to ruin my own enjoyment, so it's good to be reminded of the important things. Thanks.

[Spence]

So, if I'm reading the replies correctly, then the consensus is that most here accept that ESPN is doing the things noted, but it's not so disturbing to others as it is to me. I find it very questionable that the conference with one of the worst records against AQ conference opponents in 2013 is simultaneously hailed as the most dominant conference and sports a record 8 teams in the top 25. Growing up, my two favorite teams were from that conference (Florida & Georgia), so you would think I'd be thrilled by this turn of events, but I'm not.

I think it all goes back to rankings based on subjective belief to the exclusion of objective metrics. Seriously, what is so wrong about ranking team A who proved it on the field above team B who everyone knows is better? Next week more data comes in and its THAT data that should be used to adjust the rankings, not something else.

The problem is, you really don't know until bowl season who is really good. We all think we know. Most of us think it is obvious. We have dicussed this and argued about this for as long as we have been watching football. ESPN isn't the problem. It is the voters who are sheep. It isn't wrong to pay attention to what they say and compare it to the facts, then form an opinion. Even if you do that, though, you still can fairly compare teams. Their are not enough common opponents to make a fair comparison. All you can do is make an honest effort to rank teams. It is hard to vote in a t25 poll and do it right. You end up compromising the things going in that you believe when the losses start. It just happens. If you would like to vote in the users poll here, you can sign up at the end of this season and vote next year. You will find out what I mean. When I voted, I thought I could bring the prefect poll each week and I could be so consistent with my vote that it would be beyond criticism. When the season started out I did just that. My poll was consistent and you could see exactly how I got from the 1s to the 2nd to the 3rd etc...Then more games were played and it became harder and harder to follow my formula until it finally just didn't work. That is why I ask for honesty, because that is the only fair way. Vote an order each we that you believe is correct, no matter that method. That is all you can do.

[Old Ducker]

The guy in the office next to mine is a UF grad and major fan. He will not be in a good mood tomorrow morning.

[donovan]

The guy in the office next to mine is a UF grad and major fan. He will not be in a good mood tomorrow morning.

And is so much fun and so eary to be humble when you are on top. Milk it, OldDucker

[billybud]

Well...I am biased re the Big Ten...and honest about it. They bring in more money then anyone, have their own Big Ten Network and whiny fans still believe that ESPN (NCAA, insert name here) is against them.

Like many southerners, I believe that the Big Ten has been over rated and over hyped for years. Why? Because football was practically invented in the league and they own tradition. Southern teams like FSU, Miami, Alabama, etc were relatively new kids on the block....post Knute Rockne.

[Old Ducker]

The guy in the office next to mine is a UF grad and major fan. He will not be in a good mood tomorrow morning.

And is so much fun and so eary to be humble when you are on top. Milk it, OldDucker

I do not take personal pride in Oregon sports. I'm a fan, but that's about as far as it goes. There are far more important things to be concerned about...Nixon said something to the effect that "you cannot imagine how great it is to be on top of the highest mountain unless you have been in the deepest valley." As far as football goes, when I was a student, we were definitely in the deepest valley, although it did have its' benefits...nobody cared if we climbed over the fence at Autzen and played football on the field, then afterwards, up onto the roof to watch the sun set. A simpler time. I wouldn't trade the student experience in the mid 70's for anything, in fact I feel sorry for the kids who are there now. Back then it was arguably better academically, smaller, a lot cheaper and Eugene was just a better city to live in in almost every way, most of which had nothing to do with the school.

As for Oregon football, I am afraid the Ducks will be occupying the summit for quite some time. Sorry.

[Eric]

I don't think the Big 10 has been overrated since Ohio State's debacle in 2006. Who hasn't dumped on the Big 10 in the national media after that year?

For the record, prior to the last five years or so when the B1G-dumping justifiably began, they were roughly at a draw with the SEC in the postseason and they've been at a draw with the ACC all-time in bowl games with a winning all-time record. Of course I didn't follow college football in the 80's and 90's, so I don't know what the media climate was really like, if people were talking about the Big 10 as glowingly as they gush about the SEC today which wouldn't make a lot of sense. I think the stats bear out that, over that time, the conferences were basically even in terms of on-field product.

[Spence]

I don't think the Big 10 has been overrated since Ohio State's debacle in 2006. Who hasn't dumped on the Big 10 in the national media after that year?

For the record, prior to the last five years or so when the B1G-dumping justifiably began, they were roughly at a draw with the SEC in the postseason and they've been at a draw with the ACC all-time in bowl games with a winning all-time record. Of course I didn't follow college football in the 80's and 90's, so I don't know what the media climate was really like, if people were talking about the Big 10 as glowingly as they gush about the SEC today which wouldn't make a lot of sense. I think the stats bear out that, over that time, the conferences were basically even in terms of on-field product.

They did gush all over the B-10 until the 80's. Then it was split at best. The media was lots more regional then, but the southern teams not named Alabama didn't get much play until Florida State fought their way through and Miami followed. Oklahoma got lots of love too. ND, USC, UCLA, Michigan, and Ohio State were the national media darlings.

[Old Ducker]

I don't think the Big 10 has been overrated since Ohio State's debacle in 2006. Who hasn't dumped on the Big 10 in the national media after that year?

For the record, prior to the last five years or so when the B1G-dumping justifiably began, they were roughly at a draw with the SEC in the postseason and they've been at a draw with the ACC all-time in bowl games with a winning all-time record. Of course I didn't follow college football in the 80's and 90's, so I don't know what the media climate was really like, if people were talking about the Big 10 as glowingly as they gush about the SEC today which wouldn't make a lot of sense. I think the stats bear out that, over that time, the conferences were basically even in terms of on-field product.

A few decades ago the general perception was that the Big10 was quite a bit better than the PAC8/10 with the exception of the elite programs (then) such as USC and Washingten (spelling on purpose ). In 1958, when Oregon played Ohio State in the Rose Bowl, Woody Hayes did nothing but bitc...er complain about deserving a better quality opponent. Of course after the game, during which tOSU eked out a 10-7 win after the Ducks fumbled deep in Ohio State territory on what would have likely been a late scoring drive, he had nothing but praise for Oregon.

[Spence]

Woody would admit when he thought he was wrong. He just didn't think it very often.

[Duke1632]

Of course I didn't follow college football in the 80's and 90's, so I don't know what the media climate was really like, if people were talking about the Big 10 as glowingly as they gush about the SEC today which wouldn't make a lot of sense.

I did not pay attention one way or the other either, but I do recall a slew of B1G teams in the rankings--like 6 or so every week all during those decades, or at least during much of them. That would seem to indicate there was media gushing. However, most times it was teams from conferences less well represented that ended up winning the national title, like ACC-FSU and Independent/Big East/Miami. I imagine that must have been galling for B1G fans, and somewhat ironic, as now the perception is B1G only has 1 good team, so going undefeated is less challenging. But back then, strength of conference was a very minor factor.

[Spence]

It wasn't galling. FSU and Miami were the best teams for the most part of 20 years there.

[Duke1632]

It wasn't galling. FSU and Miami were the best teams for the most part of 20 years there.

Well, you are not the archetypal fan for a B1G team.

[Spence]

You should see me at a game. I know lots of guys who thought that FSU and Miami were great during that time. They will only admit it to other Buckeyes. Cooper recruited and developed some great players. He never really built any great teams. No defenses anything close to what Bowden had during those years. Tressel took Coopers guys a made a team. Then came the massacre against Florida and Tress was determined to recruit speed without regard to size. We have never really gotten away from that. Ohio State's defense is built to stop the read option. As much as it pains me to say it, we can't play big boy football on defense anymore. We can on offense right now. We can't go power, we can go double twins, we can run the option. Ohio State's offense is for real and very good. We have half a good team.

I know lots of Buckeyes who know we shouldn't be in the championship in our current incarnation. Unless the young Dlinemen suddenly see the light go on, not this season. It is still a fun group to watch. Even if it is waiting for a train wreck.

The big reason Ohio State fans call ESPN for bias is Mark May and his rants against Ohio State for whatever reason. Most of us don't notice Lou Holtz defending us at every turn. ESPN knows how big Buckeye Nation is and they know how to push their buttons. It always works. When Colin Cowherd needs a shot in the ratings arm, he says something negitive about Ohio State and boom, his switchboard lights up and he has Buckeye fans calling him for two weeks. Ohio State react every time. Not the majority, but there are lots of us.

[Duke1632]

You should see me at a game. I know lots of guys who thought that FSU and Miami were great during that time. They will only admit it to other Buckeyes. Cooper recruited and developed some great players. He never really built any great teams. No defenses anything close to what Bowden had during those years. Tressel took Coopers guys a made a team. Then came the massacre against Florida and Tress was determined to recruit speed without regard to size. We have never really gotten away from that. Ohio State's defense is built to stop the read option. As much as it pains me to say it, we can't play big boy football on defense anymore. We can on offense right now. We can't go power, we can go double twins, we can run the option. Ohio State's offense is for real and very good. We have half a good team.

I know lots of Buckeyes who know we shouldn't be in the championship in our current incarnation. Unless the young Dlinemen suddenly see the light go on, not this season. It is still a fun group to watch. Even if it is waiting for a train wreck.

The big reason Ohio State fans call ESPN for bias is Mark May and his rants against Ohio State for whatever reason. Most of us don't notice Lou Holtz defending us at every turn. ESPN knows how big Buckeye Nation is and they know how to push their buttons. It always works. When Colin Cowherd needs a shot in the ratings arm, he says something negitive about Ohio State and boom, his switchboard lights up and he has Buckeye fans calling him for two weeks. Ohio State react every time. Not the majority, but there are lots of us.

Honestly, I don't watch ESPN much, and it probably shows, as my knowledge of the sport is not very extensive. However, I have seen a few segments with those two, and from my take it appears Holtz has his hands full trying to mitigate comments from Mark May. I've not seen any discussion the Buckeyes, but several and most especially when May attacks coaches.

As an aside, you've often alluded to the massive fan base, so I'm curious why that is. I remember for many decades OSU was in the top 3 in student population, along with Texas, etc., so is that the sole or primary reason, or is there something more. How do you think the rise of these mega-population schools, like Arizona State, will affect their popularity down the road?