Hippies

[Dossenator]

A lot of the problem starts with the parents like I mentioned in my earlier post. My wife is an assistant principal at a high school and deals with this often. They will catch a kid with joints in their backpack, purse, pocket, etc. They call the parents and the parents say it can't be our kids. Someone must of planted it on them. They bust kids all the time at dances, etc with breathalyzers, and the parents say my kid did not drink alcohol. She says these kids can barely walk at dances because they are so drunk and that you can smell the alcohol on them 10 feet away...when the parent arrives to pick their kid up they still deny that their precious baby had anything to drink. She even had one parent say that her son must have been held down and had the alcohol poured down his throat.

My wife says about 9 our of 10 parents act this way. It is rare for a parent these days to come in and say what were you thinking. Are you stupid. We told you what taking drugs and drinking alcohol will do to you. You grounded until you graduate, etc, etc, etc.

I know what my parents would have done if I would have come home or been caught with drugs or alcohol. Not a pretty picture to imagine. I am 32 and have never tried beer, liquor, cigarettes, or any kind of drug (well I have tasted wine and hated it). I don't deserve any kind of medal for this but I do thank my parents and grandparents for steering me in the right direction. They are the ones that deserve a medal.

[WoVeU]

Doss you sound like my brother, the middle one.

Me I tried and loved cigarettes really early and beer early. Tried some drugs and thought they were stupid. I love Jack Daniels. I don't drink much anymore, smoke cigarettes like a freight train and drink coffee ritually (my coffee is more closely apporxiamted by espresso.

Then there is my youngest brother...did everything under the sun.

3 brothers, 3 totally different stories!

[WoVeU]

When you take the money incentive out of anything, the problem is exposed for what it is and then there is often a solution.

Drugs, most every political issue, college football...etc.

If you use alcohol for an example, there are tons of problems with alcohol usage. We fight this daily and enable it twice daily. But we have none of the problems associated with prohibition.

The solution to alcohol, I think, is to not allow it for an excuse for bad behavior. Drink, but you drive and drink, you do not get a license again. Period. Drive while suspended and you go to jail. Hit your wife while drunk, you go to jail. Well you go whether drunk or not...but you get the idea.

Firm unwavering codified punishments for bad actions is the solution. People either accept and wake up or they go to jail. And there will be plenty of jail room when we get all the drug money incentive criminals out of there.

I couldn't agree more! If we are going to be a free society then let's do it. If you want to do something stupid that is bad for you or want to endanger yourself...have at it! If you want to do something that endangers others...we got this real nice jumpsuit for you and some nice shiny bracelets.

Many of societies problems, I think, are founded on how we have tried to blend freedom with governance. I know from management experience and parenting the best way to really screw up is creating rules you can not enforce. Then, secondarily, the things we have to mix, like liberalism and conservatism, we seem to mix the wrong aspects.

[Spence]

When you take the money incentive out of anything, the problem is exposed for what it is and then there is often a solution.

Drugs, most every political issue, college football...etc.

If you use alcohol for an example, there are tons of problems with alcohol usage. We fight this daily and enable it twice daily. But we have none of the problems associated with prohibition.

The solution to alcohol, I think, is to not allow it for an excuse for bad behavior. Drink, but you drive and drink, you do not get a license again. Period. Drive while suspended and you go to jail. Hit your wife while drunk, you go to jail. Well you go whether drunk or not...but you get the idea.

Firm unwavering codified punishments for bad actions is the solution. People either accept and wake up or they go to jail. And there will be plenty of jail room when we get all the drug money incentive criminals out of there.

I think that is it. Too many people want to use being high in any manor as an excuse. It isn't. If you hurt someone while doing drugs or alcohol, it is your fault and you must suffer the conseqences. Anything that is illegal sober should be illegel under the influence and they should at least be treated that way. Hit a bus full of kids driving the wrong way down the road, go to jail for hitting a bus load of kids. Whether or not you are sober should not matter.

About the jail room. We need to make it a really bad punishment to go to jail. Give them a 6x9 cell with a bed and a toliet, give them three meals a day in their cell, and give them a book if they wish. Don't give them any contact with anyone but their lawyer. Give them a rope if they request it. They wouldn't have to sentence people to 10 years. One year for robbery in those conditions would be enough. Guys in for life would use that rope soon enough.

[WoVeU]

About the jail room. We need to make it a really bad punishment to go to jail. Give them a 6x9 cell with a bed and a toliet, give them three meals a day in their cell, and give them a book if they wish. Don't give them any contact with anyone but their lawyer. Give them a rope if they request it. They wouldn't have to sentence people to 10 years. One year for robbery in those conditions would be enough. Guys in for life would use that rope soon enough.

Exactly! Things have gone way to far in the penal system to just make it a place of separation. Many feel that the prison system is used to separate criminals from society. The problem is that is about all it is. It simply isn't punitive enough. Concentrate the discomfort and pain and you can readily shorten the sentences. 3 meals (max), we don't need spices, really don't need hot meals. 2 day old bread should be the staple of prison cuisine. Potted meat, bologna, and some canned veggies. I was thinking 5.5 x 10 cell (7' high), shower head and toilet in the rear of the cell. The shower head would only have minimal pressure except for a 15 minute period every other day. No bars, all concrete construction. Not a big prison yard, several to many smaller ones about 400 sq.ft.. The only other human you ever see is a guard that brings your food and escorts you to one of the small yards for 30 minutes 3 times a week, where you are by yourself, with some grass and maybe a tree, and a small parlk bench.

Then you can apply for work detail detention for the last 1 to 3 months depending on your sentence. The detention center would be a prison more like today's with the ball courts and exercise equipment, cable tv, computers, and carpet removed. And this is only to get an idea if they can co-exist with other humans.

[Eric]

Yeah, I always thought that the point of prison is to make the place uncomfortable. When homeless people would be better off committing a crime and going to jail, there's a problem.

I'm on your bandwagon, WoVeU. I don't see the need for drugs to be illegal. Sure it would be easier to obtain, but you'd cut the use immensely when people see the real affects instead of just hearing about them. It takes the "forbidden fruit" aspect away from the situation. I grew up with a couple friends who grew up in a strict Pentecostal household, and they fell into the drug culture and had a screwed up version of what it meant to be "cool." I realize it's another topic, but if you tell somebody not to do something long enough, they'll eventually start doing it. You have to have a way of truly enforcing the rules in order for them to respect the rules. I'm rambling, and probably in an incoherent fashion where I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Derek]

I've been in favor of drugs being illegal for some time. Mainly because they are SO addictive, unlike alcohol. One instance of crack and your addicted.

THEN after they become addicted, they start using your tax dollars to CURE them through various government programs.

There are some that will also say that they should know better, and while I agree, I don't know if we can just let them die....

The real solution IMO, is to start handing out the death penalty for drug dealers. If your caught dealing more than a set amount of drugs (like a guy you would see on Miami vice) then you WILL die.

People will quit dealing when this starts happening. Regardless of what the media and Democrats tell you, the death penalty is the best deterrent ever devised.

[Spence]

I've been in favor of drugs being illegal for some time. Mainly because they are SO addictive, unlike alcohol. One instance of crack and your addicted.

THEN after they become addicted, they start using your tax dollars to CURE them through various government programs.

There are some that will also say that they should know better, and while I agree, I don't know if we can just let them die....

The real solution IMO, is to start handing out the death penalty for drug dealers. If your caught dealing more than a set amount of drugs (like a guy you would see on Miami vice) then you WILL die.

People will quit dealing when this starts happening. Regardless of what the media and Democrats tell you, the death penalty is the best deterrent ever devised.

I'm not a big fan of drug dealers, but they aren't the problem. The people wanting their service are the problem. These guys aren't the sterotypical pusher type guys you heard about when you were a kid. The people who buy from them no exactly what they are getting. Prohibition just makes things more attractive to sell illegally. Crack isn't instantly addictive, even nicotine (the most addictive drug on the planet) isn't going to pull you in the first time. It all build, some things quicker then others. Cocaine can kill you the first time you do it, but it usually doesn't. I don't even think it is as physically addictive as lots of other drugs. It's real danger is the mental addiction. Trying to keep the high going, that makes it do dangerous.

Alcohol can be just as addictive to those with the wrong gene and abuse of any of it can kill you. The key is letting the truth about it all out. Not just the really bad stuff. Then if someone is going to kill themselves, they have been informed.

[WoVeU]

I've been in favor of drugs being illegal for some time. Mainly because they are SO addictive, unlike alcohol. One instance of crack and your addicted.

THEN after they become addicted, they start using your tax dollars to CURE them through various government programs.

There are some that will also say that they should know better, and while I agree, I don't know if we can just let them die....

The real solution IMO, is to start handing out the death penalty for drug dealers. If your caught dealing more than a set amount of drugs (like a guy you would see on Miami vice) then you WILL die.

People will quit dealing when this starts happening. Regardless of what the media and Democrats tell you, the death penalty is the best deterrent ever devised.

I can only back up your approach for minors, I'd say 17. Under 17 you can't get them legally. Somebody sales to a minor and they are charged with attempted man slaughter...1 count for every gram or 2 in their possession for some drugs...attempted murder for others! 3 to 7 years in a prison as mentioned earlier, death penalty on the 2nd offense.

If an adult wants to poison himself...we are a free country, let him have at it! Getting the adults out of the customer line for elicit drugs on the street would kill the market! Protecting children would then be possible at least much more possible.

Just making the punishment stiffer for all...the death penalty...you scare some dealers off the others are much more trigger happy it is life or death when the heat shows up...the price goes up...dealers get more armed and more deadly. As a matter of fact it would quickly grow (in 2 to 4 years) to a point where you don't wait for "the man" to come down on you. You just start hunting cops and shooting them down. I guarantee, you will have few wanting to be a cop...and we'd have to pay them 3 to 10 times what we pay now...and you are probably talking about getting the National Guard and the Military Involved. DEA agents would have huge bounties on their heads, the FBI agents, State Police, all the way down! I guarantee it...I know these people...I know people in general...I absolutely guarantee it! You can't play * for tat with these guys. They already have no code and are outside of the law. Do you know how easy it is (tactically) to kill somebody who is just out going about their business in public.

If I went out to day with a 50 cal., a .243, a .410 pistol, a 10-gauge pump and a 300 magnum and all my rifles had nice wide field scopes and I had a real nice bi-pod. If I had the mentality that a policeman's uniform meant target...how many could you kill. You aren't trying to hide, run, fly under the radar, or dodge these guys...you were hunting them like animals! How many could I kill in 1 day? It is scary to think. I don't want to be nasty...but I want this point made loud and clear. I have friends that are cops, I like them alive. They would tell you what I am telling you except if you were standing in front of them saying it...they'd go ballistic!

[billybud]

I do not fit the public profile for my generation. I have never smoked, not even one cigarette, never tried any drug...no marijuana, nothing.

I did drink Pagan Pink Ripple, Boone's Farm, and other silly stuff when I was young and out playing foosball or chasing women.

I, now, enjoy a good spanish wine (Ones made from Tempranillo grapes from the Jumilla area are my favorites). A crisp, acidic Savignon Blanc, or a good Zin.


I do want to try a cigar once before kicking the bucket...just to see what the fuss is about.

[WoVeU]

I have only had like $10 cigars (about 10% better than a $3 one). I like them with a good stiff cup of coffee, espresso, or a cap the way I make it, also good with Bourbon, Scotch, and Tenn Whisk. From what I've seen few guys that don't smoke cigarettes really enjoy even a really good cigar. Now a good pipe is a little bit different....if you like a really good wine try a real nice pipe tobacco first (something mild, aromatic, and somewhat sweet with an acidic wine).

And at least those aren't addictive for an older gentleman (40+), not that I've seen.

[Spence]

I have only had like $10 cigars (about 10% better than a $3 one). I like them with a good stiff cup of coffee, espresso, or a cap the way I make it, also good with Bourbon, Scotch, and Tenn Whisk. From what I've seen few guys that don't smoke cigarettes really enjoy even a really good cigar. Now a good pipe is a little bit different....if you like a really good wine try a real nice pipe tobacco first (something mild, aromatic, and somewhat sweet with an acidic wine).

And at least those aren't addictive for an older gentleman (40+), not that I've seen.

I have never smoked. I watched my grandfather, grandmother, and my dad die from it. I figured I would let something else take me. I'm not much for Scotch, they tell me it is an acquired taste and I figured if it needs to be acquired I'm not the right guy. When I drink, I drink Crown or beer. My wife and her family like wine, they went out to wine country last year and still have crates coming in. I don't care much for wine. I will drink a glass if we are eating Italian, but I could drink iced tea and be just as happy.

I don't drink much of anything but water anymore. I'll have a beer or two at the golf course; usually another at the nineteenth hole, but that is about it. I'm heavily involved in my kid’s activities and I really don't have the time to stop for a beer anymore. I rarely drink at home; I can have a six pack in my refrigerator for months. I like the neighborhood bar scene or did until I got married; now I get the same thing on this site as I did in the bar. It was mostly about the conversation for me and with my wife and three girls; I don't get many chances to talk football except here.

[WoVeU]

Spence -
Much is the same for me. I don't care much for Scotch, it has a bit of a rosey bouquet. Crown I like, but it is just a bit too smooth.
I prefer Gentleman Jack. Current rate, 3 to 6 evenings a year. I may end up doing more elbow rubbing down here so that may increase.
Beer I love, but it makes me sleepy! I won't eat a good steak out w/o a good beer. I couldn't tell you the last time I drank more than 3 bottles. Wine, only had a few I like, a good wine I like w/ Italian as well. (Too much learning curve for me to get into wine.)

My kids activities are mostly games so I am not too engaged to their activities. Our chief relationship is they brake things and I fix them. We watch some sports together and I'll go out and play some b-ball with them when they decide to venture out.

[billybud]

Crown? CROWN?

Gawd..yankee boys will screw up anything LOL. Crown is neither a bourbon nor a Tennessee whiskey. No decent southern boy would let a drop of this canadian swill enter his mouth. It makes for a decent ladies drink for women who want the smoothness and don't like the taste of alcohol. And it can be mixed with coke (who would want to ruin a good bourbon or Tennessee Whiskey with coke?)

Give me Blanton's with a splash or Evan Williams Reserve. I will drink Bookers but I have to cut it down with water (125 proof).

The day I start drinking Crown is the day that I will start orderering those mixed drinks with oriental paper umbrellas sticking out of the top. "Oh, bring me one of those blue drinks, dear."

[Spence]

I don't drink mixed drinks at all.