SPEAKING OF THE BCS...

[donovan]

It will really bother me that Boise and TCU may end the year ranked in the top 2 in the BCS standings without the resume to be there. They face very little adversity in a season. Look at just the SEC West alone....Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Arkansas....and Miss State has enough talent to upset any of those teams. It is brutal to not only win your conference in the SEC but to just win the SEC West is brutal. What happens if Bama, Auburn, LSU, Or Ark ends the season 11-1 and win the SEC championship game and is 12-1. Will that team bypass undefeated Boise and TCU in the BCS standings...they should.

Then why don't you take them off the list to be considered. Their schedule is known well in advance of the season. Just leave them off your lists and the BCS lists. But to continually whimper because they are just following their own corrupt rules and that no one seemingly wants to change them, is so laborious and an exercise in futility.

[Spence]

The "rules" are well known in advance. I have no problem if Boise State ends up in the championship game. Even if my team is the one that gets knocked out to make way. I happen to think that they are one of the best teams in the country. This isn't Hawaii 2007. This is a team that has spent two years proving themselves. In their extreme wisdom the BCS bowl commitee decided to put both teams from non AQ conferences in the same game so neither could have that one extra chance to prove themselves. If they are one of the two top teams at the end of the season, I will say congrats to the BSU fans on this board and watch the game - same as anyone else.

[Dossenator]

My buddies say I may be the toughest man alive. The last five Saturdays I beat up my grandpa (he still has a little bit of game), then I whipped my grandma, I followed that by beating up on my little brother (he's scrappy but in the end not much of a fight), then I stomped on an infant, and I have a row of infants lined up for me the rest of the way.

My best friend has been in some fights over the past 5 weeks as well and claims to be tougher than I....he has fought Mike Tyson, Chuck Norris, a slightly over weight cop, and Jackie Chan...with a marine lined up the next fight. But my friend is not very good...see he's lost a fight.

I must be the best because a win is a win. Hey...I'm following the rules so bring on the infant, let me reap the rewards of my bogus victories.

[Dossenator]

If Boise gets in the title game with that schedule then I am done with college football.

[Spence]

My buddies say I may be the toughest man alive. The last five Saturdays I beat up my grandpa (he still has a little bit of game), then I whipped my grandma, I followed that by beating up on my little brother (he's scrappy but in the end not much of a fight), then I stomped on an infant, and I have a row of infants lined up for me the rest of the way.



My best friend has been in some fights over the past 5 weeks as well and claims to be tougher than I....he has fought Mike Tyson, Chuck Norris, a slightly over weight cop, and Jackie Chan...with a marine lined up the next fight. But my friend is not very good...see he's lost a fight.

I must be the best because a win is a win. Hey...I'm following the rules so bring on the infant, let me reap the rewards of my bogus victories.

Boise State played Oregon State and Virginia Tech. Not exactly chumps. I'm not following the win is a win philosophy. I am paying attention to the teams. No where does the rules say the team that plays the toughest schedule goes to the championship. As a matter of fact the team that plays the toughest schedule most likely can't be the best team, because he is playing tougher teams. Ohio State makes everyone's schedule they play tougher. Has for several years, but is doesn't make any of those teams better.

What the BCS does is try and find the best two teams in CFB. Not the two teams that play the toughest schedule. If one team doesn't belong in the game it will be found out eventually. If they do belong, that too will be found out.

[Eric]

That's very true, Spence, the schedule should only be taken into account when the voters are not presented with a clear choice. I think a 12-1 Alabama and a 12-0 Boise State team will be roughly a 50/50 decision to make when the time comes. I probably would give Alabama the benefit of the doubt, but if Boise State wipes out the competition the way they are supposed to you can really make a case for them as well.

But with that schedule, you can't treat Boise State like just any unbeaten team. Generally an undefeated BCS conference team will get the automatic pass over Alabama because they were consistently tested. Boise wasn't consistently tested. It shouldn't be the deciding factor, but it is a factor certainly.

[Dossenator]

My buddies say I may be the toughest man alive. The last five Saturdays I beat up my grandpa (he still has a little bit of game), then I whipped my grandma, I followed that by beating up on my little brother (he's scrappy but in the end not much of a fight), then I stomped on an infant, and I have a row of infants lined up for me the rest of the way.



My best friend has been in some fights over the past 5 weeks as well and claims to be tougher than I....he has fought Mike Tyson, Chuck Norris, a slightly over weight cop, and Jackie Chan...with a marine lined up the next fight. But my friend is not very good...see he's lost a fight.

I must be the best because a win is a win. Hey...I'm following the rules so bring on the infant, let me reap the rewards of my bogus victories.

Boise State played Oregon State and Virginia Tech. Not exactly chumps. I'm not following the win is a win philosophy. I am paying attention to the teams. No where does the rules say the team that plays the toughest schedule goes to the championship. As a matter of fact the team that plays the toughest schedule most likely can't be the best team, because he is playing tougher teams. Ohio State makes everyone's schedule they play tougher. Has for several years, but is doesn't make any of those teams better.

What the BCS does is try and find the best two teams in CFB. Not the two teams that play the toughest schedule. If one team doesn't belong in the game it will be found out eventually. If they do belong, that too will be found out.

Spence...you say you don't subscribe to a win is a win but then you go on and say just that. Your argument is don't play the tougher teams and beat the weak and then your considered one of the best. Virginia Tech lost to James Madison (by a larger margin then Boise beat them on VT's home field) for crying out loud. This is just maddening to me....I must be stuck in some kind of twilight zone episode where all reason has been tossed aside.

Boise's schedule:
Virginia Tech (got beat by James Madison...by more points than Boise beat them...on VT home field)
Wyoming
Oregon State
New Mexico State
Toledo
San Jose State
Louisiana Tech
Hawaii
Idaho
Fresno State
Nevada
Utah State

That schedule is laughable at best. There is at least 8 (maybe 9) meaningless games on that schedule. Every year I hear teams like Texas, Ohio State, Florida, etc getting ridiculed for scheduling 2-3 dogs on their schedule. However, they will have 6-8 meaningful games on their schedules (you know games where they are challenged and could actually lose). Boise never has to do what Bama just had to do....Ark on the road, Flor at home, South Carolina on the road, and they still have LSU, and Auburn on the schedule (and the other weeks they will have games against teams like Miss State that would go at worst 9-3 with Boise's schedule...with a legit chance at 10-2 or 11-1).

Spence...please tell me how you can tell that Boise is one of the best teams in the country after looking at that schedule? I don't see one very good team on it...not 1. I see a list of teams that other schools schedule for easy wins...many teams just a notch above FCS quality (and a few below). What happens if Oregon St and Virg Tech loss 4 games a piece (which will probably happen)? What then? I have said it before...I can list at least 25 teams that would probably be undefeated with that schedule. And winning a BCS game against an OU etc does not make you the best. It's one game. I want to see Boise tested for 3 or 4 straight weeks against teams that can actually beat them...and then later in the season tested for 3 or 4 weeks again. That is what teams like Ohio State, Texas, Nebraska, OU, Alabama, Auburn, etc have to do every season.

I just feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall.

[Spence]

I'm not saying you should treat Boise State or TCU's schedule like any other unbeaten team. I agree that youy need to look farther and longer and harder. Here is what I see. Boise State has beaten a couple pretty good teams. They have beaten even more bad teams. They have beaten them like a good team should beat a bad team. They have a decent defense. A good quarterback and a good defense. I think they are a top ten team. I'm not quite sure yet where in the top ten I would put them, but they would be in my top ten no question.

Ohio State hasn't played anyone so far this year. I think Boise State schedule so far is probably a little better than Ohio State's. Ohio State's will start getting better starting this week. Wisconsin is easily the best team Ohio State has faced to date. They play power football, something that has caused problems for Ohio State. They have a better QB then any Ohio State has faced this year. Defensively they aren't as good as they have been, but they play well against the run and they have a good front seven. Ohio State would be in my top 10 as well - again not sure yet where.

I don't have a problem with Boise State being #1 or #5 right now. Same with Ohio State. I'm not so keen on Oklahoma, at least yet. I like Nebraska, but I haven't seen them but one time, so I can't fairly evaluate them. I like Alabama - alot. I think they need to mature on defense. Maybe it will happen this year, maybe not, but I like the team. I haven't seen TCU yet, so I can't comment on them. I still think the cream has yet to rise above the rest. It probably will and I am willing to wait until then to see who I end up thinking should be in the big game. I know you can wait for my decision.

[Spence]

Doss, I'm not ready to proclaim anyone king just yet. I just believe Boise State should be in the conversation. Even when a team plays a bad team you can tell if they are good or not. Sometimes you can't tell how good. I knew Michigan wasn't good - even though most are still saying the jury is still out. It isn't in my mind because no one that plays that poorly on defense is good. I think they have some good players - not enough, but some. Even if Michigan would have played Boise State's schedule and won all the same games Boise State did, you would still be able to tell they have problems.

I understand your position. I agree schedule should be a part of the process. I think whether or not a team is good is the most important part. Right now I haven't seen anything from Boise State to not believe they are good.

[donovan]

I just feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall.

Which may account for so many broken bricks.

[silverfox]

If Boise gets in the title game with that schedule then I am done with college football.

Gosh I think I once heard something like that in the third grade.

Its only a game.

BSU didn't make the rules...and several folks say they don't like the rules or the system but start crying if the rules are enforced (if it might - once in the BLUE moon) go against them.

If you don't like the system that might finally let a team like BSU play the big game -- then remember that folks who like BSU don't like the system either cuz it has kept them locked out for an eternity. Just because someone uses the rules to perhaps earn a spot in the big game doesn't make them a pariah. After all, thats why the rules have been so slanted for so long.

Your real enemy is PARITY. What you are seeing out there this year is that most of these teams are essentially equal in ability, depth, talent and occasional good luck. On any given day any given team can have a BAD day -- and any given team can win. Thats why it is always best to go game by game instead of wringing one's hands crying over something that hasn't happened yet.

If you are a football purist you probably hate the idea that the game now has so much parity that the godforbids and the bottom feeders might get a break because they played all the odds and now those odds are working in their favor. But a football purist also hates this formula called the BCS as well.

Lots of teams -- including the wellknowns, have some powderpuffs on their schedules. I pointed out Bama's very first game this year and questioned why they could be rated number one because they played such a terrible bottom feeding team. That was conveniently glossed over although my argument was the same as anyone elses -- instead had hate innuendo thrown at me just because someone felt I said Boise State should have been number one because they defeated a higher ranked team. I never said that. I just complained about the system.

Now...efforts are made to try to label Virginia Tech a bad team because they had a bad day -- poorly scheduled at five days after the BSU game. Fact is VT was hurting because BSU is a very physical team. They were shocked because that wasn't supposed to happen in their own back yard (like a home game for them) Five days after playing BSU is enough to hurt any team... I hope VT runs the schedule now... They are a good team and deserve the win. The shock of being beaten down by BSU was overpowering for a season opener.

Reminds me of the childhood stories whereby some kid threatens to take his bat and ball and go home just because he didn't get his way. Only in this case you don't own the bat and ball.

If you end up leaving college football fanship if BSU makes it to the big game then you will be sorely missed.

Cuz who we gonna debate in a friendly civilized manner next? I suspect you will still be here anyway regardless of the outcome.

jmho

[Spence]

I don't think CFB has reached parity. I don't see any way to have parity with 120 teams. I think there are 15-20 pretty good teams in the country. 5 or 6 of which that are better then the others. I'm not sure that I buy Boise State in the top 2 yet, but I'm not sure about anyone yet. I think they should be considered because they are a very good team. I don't think they should be dismissed based solely on schedule.

[Eric]

I don't think CFB has reached parity. I don't see any way to have parity with 120 teams. I think there are 15-20 pretty good teams in the country. 5 or 6 of which that are better then the others. I'm not sure that I buy Boise State in the top 2 yet, but I'm not sure about anyone yet. I think they should be considered because they are a very good team. I don't think they should be dismissed based solely on schedule.

I think we're seeing less parity. The bad non-BCS teams are losing out on the money grabs while the FCS is taking advantage. At least I think, I have absolutely nothing to back this up other than anecdotal evidence

[Dossenator]

It is hard for any of us to see things clearly when emotion is involved...especially with our own teams. I just see a system that may benefit a team (that I have no ill will towards) that does not earn it on the field. I'm sorry but I will not be impressed if Boise beats the likes of: Wyoming, Toledo, New Mexico State, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, Utah State, San Jose State all by 50 points or more. Again, that's like me going to a play ground and beating up on a bunch of 1st graders and then proclaiming myself the toughest man alive. I know my team may never get a shot at the BCS NC game (in fact they probably never will)...but if they do I know they earned it on the field.

I also want to know how the system has kept Boise locked out for an eternity...Boise has only been an FBS school for 14 years or so (right)...and Boise has played in 2 BCS bowl games...ya, the system has really kept the little guy down. Maybe I don't understand because I'm like a third grader.

And for what's it's worth I have Boise State 5th in my poll (I currently have only Oregon, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Auburn above them).

[Spence]

I don't think that Boise State has been locked out either. I think that any team that wants to make into national championship position has to do it over more then one year. Because teams in CFB don't play their peers in other conferences you really can't take a team without a lot of history and put them in the game. I'm not saying this is a great way of doing it, but what else can they do. They are going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone that has done it over time or err on the side of what they know. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with them playing TCU against Boise State last year in the BCS. They should have let them play one of the AQ teams and that would give everyone a better idea of where they are as a team.

Boise State will likely never be able to match the SOS of a top team in a major conference. They don't play in a major conference. They likely haven't been invited into one. They can't just call up the PAC 10 and say "we will be joining now." They are scheduling good programs in the OOC. They are traveling to play them. They have the right to schedule an OOC home game or two. If Ohio State won't come to Boise State and play - and they won't - then they can invite Toledo and keep their ticket receipts. Arkansas isn't going to play in Boise either - neither of those teams would duck Boise State. Ohio State will play anyone, but they won't travel unless it is a marquee game. That isn't Boise State's fault or Ohio State's. That is how the system works. So the only way a team like TCU or Boise State or Utah or whoever from an non AQ conference can make the game is to do the sort of thing Boise State is doing. No team is going to play 4 big games and play them all away from home, I don't think you can expect that.