Rankings

[Spence]

As for mine, I think it is a reasonable representation. (I think everybody who does rankings on here presents a strong case...) I believe that right now, Auburn and LSU are the best in the SEC, whether or not that will hold...

That is all that counts. If everyone represents their honest opinion then I think we will have a good poll.

[WoVeU]

Yeah, uh-huh, blah-blah. Some good comments in the thread others left me wanting to call an ambulance chaser to reimburse me for my pain and suffering. I have a clear case of liable.

This is why I don't bother voting. It takes a good deal of time to do it any where close to right. And it is plainly demonstrated here that people like to go with their "feeling", "impression", "prediction!" If I could only be a Nostradumass! I think we have many guys here who should be on College Payrolls...the NCAA is being cheated in your absence.

[Spence]

Yeah, uh-huh, blah-blah. Some good comments in the thread others left me wanting to call an ambulance chaser to reimburse me for my pain and suffering. I have a clear case of liable.

This is why I don't bother voting. It takes a good deal of time to do it any where close to right. And it is plainly demonstrated here that people like to go with their "feeling", "impression", "prediction!" If I could only be a Nostradumass! I think we have many guys here who should be on College Payrolls...the NCAA is being cheated in your absence.

I think most who vote here put the time in to try and get it right. I think we get honest votes from most. I think people here watch as many games as any voter in the AP and tons more than the coaches. I think our users poll is as reasoned and well thought out as any in the country. I think there is lots less negative bias here and just a reasonable amount of "my team" positive bias.

Voting in the top 25 poll takes lots of time. Most who think it would be cool to do it, find out it isn't all that easy over the course of a year. Also I think if you do it for a whole year and do it right, you will learn a lot about ranking teams. You will learn it is easy to follow a philosophy and be consistent early in the year and you will learn that the more game that get played the more your philosophy on ranking will take a hit. The guys who do it every year put their opinion out for everyone to see. I think they do a great job - whether or not I agree with the results.

[Spence]

Which is all well and good except even if you can't really tell if 110 teams are better then any team. I'm not sure you could accurately predict 100 teams to be better then a team with any consistency. You don't have enough info to do it. You still have to make too many subjective leaps to arrive at a conclusion. It is good people are working to find a way to compare teams, but I don't think anyone can accurately rank teams until it envolves some sort of national scheduling where teams have to play their peers from other conferences. It is the only way to cut down on the subjective leaps.

[silverfox]

Print each team's name onto a card until all teams are accounted for.

Shuffle the cards three times using an automated shuffler.

Walk to the top steps to the second floor of the White House.

Throw the cards down the stairs.

The card that goes the furthest is #1, the card that is closest to the top of the stairs is number 2 and alternate until all teams are accounted for.

This could be known as the Presidential football poll.

[donovan]

There is such an obsession with this ranking. Who cares what team is number 35?

[RazorHawk]

There is such an obsession with this ranking. Who cares what team is number 35?

Correct, as I think with the BCS system only the top 14 have an opportunity for a BCS (Bigger Paying) Bowl game.

When someone states that the amount of time required to "get it right", this IMO is a falsehood, as there is no right or wrong. Polls are simply opinions and the basis for your opinion is what ever you want it to be.

There are no doubt biases with all polls, but the more participants the less relevant those biases become.

[WoVeU]

Yeah, uh-huh, blah-blah. Some good comments in the thread others left me wanting to call an ambulance chaser to reimburse me for my pain and suffering. I have a clear case of liable.

This is why I don't bother voting. It takes a good deal of time to do it any where close to right. And it is plainly demonstrated here that people like to go with their "feeling", "impression", "prediction!" If I could only be a Nostradumass! I think we have many guys here who should be on College Payrolls...the NCAA is being cheated in your absence.

I think most who vote here put the time in to try and get it right. I think we get honest votes from most. I think people here watch as many games as any voter in the AP and tons more than the coaches. I think our users poll is as reasoned and well thought out as any in the country. I think there is lots less negative bias here and just a reasonable amount of "my team" positive bias.

Voting in the top 25 poll takes lots of time. Most who think it would be cool to do it, find out it isn't all that easy over the course of a year. Also I think if you do it for a whole year and do it right, you will learn a lot about ranking teams. You will learn it is easy to follow a philosophy and be consistent early in the year and you will learn that the more game that get played the more your philosophy on ranking will take a hit. The guys who do it every year put their opinion out for everyone to see. I think they do a great job - whether or not I agree with the results.

I am sure many put time and effort and even study to the craft!

I just have a big problem when somebody directly says (in a case like Bama-SC) that they ranked them by where they think they will end the season. Then follow with many words and much wind can be tossed about to attempt to add grace or some shroud of propriety or color the process one of quality. It simply can not be! The chief cornerstone has been rejected! People go well out of there way applying any fallacy of argument they can that ends up rendering them some form of judge, jury, or executioner. It is just football, but it speaks volumes on the state of human consciousness and conscience! And let me be clear this is not me playing judge over them. I am not judging the road or where it leads. I am directly speaking on the cobblestones they lay before me. I am examining the rudiments and at that concise point of discern I can fully know it lacks any and all ability to lay good foundation. (I do not need to see the mortar on base gravel or hear anything about those other ingredients.) I am speaking on a logical axiom...or "the" logical axiom for this process.

What is sad, it seems the people that at all get this is in the single digits. And 1 other person and only one get it such to the full he too can plainly set it down, point to it, and say "there, right there!" And then does NOT go on to opine and regurgitate other immaterial evidence...donovan. I am not the eldest person here, nor the most scholarly, nor have I seen as much of the world as others, and I am quite sure I have brought about less good. But in all my endeavors I have kept a full dozing blade in front of me. And I don''t go to far before i take everything back to the base principles to see if something has been left out or lost in the build process...that is the only thing I have some skill at, "I know what I know, and I know what I don't know and know the latter to be greater than the former."

It is just football. But it provides a worthy platform in the simple set yet with similitude for many things...having some like process yet the weightiness is small and more finite. If we can't apply good reasoning at the baser points here...I say with full confidence it can be applied nowhere!

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate! Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

[Spence]

There is such an obsession with this ranking. Who cares what team is number 35?

Correct, as I think with the BCS system only the top 14 have an opportunity for a BCS (Bigger Paying) Bowl game.

When someone states that the amount of time required to "get it right", this IMO is a falsehood, as there is no right or wrong. Polls are simply opinions and the basis for your opinion is what ever you want it to be.

There are no doubt biases with all polls, but the more participants the less relevant those biases become.

That is correct. When I say "get it right" I mean give an honest opinion. That is right IMO. You can't give an unbiased opinion, because it is impossible to have an opinion that doesn't represent your bias. I think if you try not to have a negative bias or bias against a team, it doesn't matter if you are bias for a team. If I am a Ball State fan and I put Ball State first in my poll, but the rest of my poll reflects a common opinion, no one else puts Ball State and they drop down or out of the poll. Putting them #1 would be an extreme example. Most people tend to hold their team only a few spots higher then they should be. Anyway, the poll doesn't suffer because of it, especially if you have lots of voters.

If on the other hand I have a negative bias against Notre Dame and chances are several other voters have the same bias, it does cause a bias in the poll to show up. I think that is the problem with the AP. Plenty of reporters reflect negative opinions of teams they don't cover on a regular basis.


The coaches poll is a bigger joke because they don't watch many games at all. They only see teams they play and maybe the primetime game on ABC/ESPN.

[billybud]

Many polls (including us humans) rank teams by where they think that they will end the season. Phil Steele and Congrove acknowledge two types of rankings....the one that I care most about is a straight "power" ranking .

But, since a powerful team with a tough schedule and 2 losses may not be in the championship games, the schedule begins to play in.

Congrove, for instance, has Alabama as more powerful than five teams that he has ranked above them. But he has Alabama as number one of all the one loss teams. What does that say? That wins over your schedule count more than being the more powerful team with a schedule much more difficult to traverse. He has Bama with an SOS of 10 while Utah's and TCU's are in the 80's and Oregon's SOS is 71.

Much easier to be undefeated with one schedule than with another...and it is ANY LOSS that drives the current top 8.

[Spence]

I think you have to take that into account as well. Performance has to have more weight then anything else. Win or lose, if a team plays well you can give them more or less credit depending on who the other teams are - putting SOS into proper perspecive.

[silverfox]

On any given day any team, good or bad, can win or lose.

Virginia Tech was battered heavily by a very physical Boise team. They were not expecting that or they would have not schedule a game a mere five days following the BSU/VT game. There is no way they were recovered. They were beaten and bruised physically and mentally by a team that was supposed to be a nobody, a bottom feeder and they paid the price the next week against Madison. The evidence was in the payment to both teams. They got paid a cool million more than the traveling team that flew across the continent to play them -- even though they lost in the end.

They are not the only ones. Oregon State suffered as well -- (and don't forget Oregon's devastating bust against the Broncos a year earlier for opening game).

South Carolina has been underrated. Bama (one of my favorite teams along with LSU) was overrated on this particular fateful day. SCar earned the right to be rated above Bama for the effort -- they beat the best of the best, the Darling of the the SEC and BCS. Not saying they should be number 1, just that they should be a little higher than the team they beat.

[Derek]

Well I try to be honest in the polls..............I don't know about donovan or billybud, but I'm honest................

[Spence]

Well I try to be honest in the polls..............I don't know about donovan or billybud, but I'm honest................

No one knows about the next guy when it comes to honesty --- only themselves. I think we have an honest poll.

Speaking of......only 32 points separate the first seven teams in the users poll. Pretty cool.

[donovan]

Well I try to be honest in the polls..............I don't know about donovan or billybud, but I'm honest................

I know Mr. Billy bud is honest.