Ohio State and Wisconsin

[Spence]

That is right. This is the worst stretch for Michigan football in ...........forever. They have never been through a stretch this bad. I am surprised he has lasted this long. I guess RR had the adminstration buying into the fact that Lloyd Carr left the cupboard bare. While Carr had his problems, he did beat Florida on his way out the door and crap teams don't beat Florida. Rodriguez hit lightening in a bottle at West Virginia and Michigan bought in.

A winning football program - one the sustains over time - consists of good defensive principles and good recruiting. There was nothing wrong with Michigan's football model. Maybe the guy running it had worn out his welome, but the model is still consistent among top football programs. All top programs, the ones who are consistent have one thing in common. They play good defense.

[Cane from the Bend]

Unfortunately, that lightning in a bottle was in the depleted sense of a weakened Big East which no-longer housed three of West Virginia's annual toughest competitors.

The Mountaineers were able to flourish in a conference that replaced its two tops dogs & perennial conference contender.

The watered down version of the Big East looked good to the Blue head office, due to the media's over hyped nonsense to attempt keeping a lesser power relevant.

Now, after enough time has gone by, we see what the backlash is.

Rodriguez can't perform the way he did in the Big East, because the Big Ten actually has quality defenses. And the Big East, although they compete with eachother, on a national scale, suffers out of conference, because they are playing against teams with the same caliber of all-around talent. Which has shown tremendously this year more than any other.

Look at his track record, and how well he did when he played in the Big East while Miami, Va Tech, & Boston College were still there.

Sure, he may have stepped up to win a game or two, but never beat all three in the same season... never beat Miami once, even during the Hurricanes downturn phase.

Yea, he won the conference... two years after the departure of 3 top schools.

Now those same sort of results are surfacing in the Big Ten ... and again, the media is trying to chime in, saying, 'He only needs one more year to get all of his pieces into place"... however, this is season #3 for him... and instead of going to a bowl, by playing the talent that he had when he arrived... he got rid of or sat players who were not his type of pieces, and played only the ones that were.

That exemplifies his class, where his integrity is worth more to him than the program he represents. Eventhough it has failed him.

Now, the weight of his short comings is upon him. And other than beating notre dame, he has nothing to point back to show progress. Which means little, because we all know nd is not what they used to be... regardless of who they fire & hire to keep themselves news worthy.

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[GoBoilers]

That is right. This is the worst stretch for Michigan football in ...........forever. They have never been through a stretch this bad. I am surprised he has lasted this long. I guess RR had the adminstration buying into the fact that Lloyd Carr left the cupboard bare. While Carr had his problems, he did beat Florida on his way out the door and crap teams don't beat Florida. Rodriguez hit lightening in a bottle at West Virginia and Michigan bought in.

A winning football program - one the sustains over time - consists of good defensive principles and good recruiting. There was nothing wrong with Michigan's football model. Maybe the guy running it had worn out his welome, but the model is still consistent among top football programs. All top programs, the ones who are consistent have one thing in common. They play good defense.

If memory serves me correctly Lloyd Carr was the one who won the National Championship when he was coach? Not Gary Moeller? Sometimes schools don't recognize you won't win 10 games a year. Maybe it was time for Carr to retire, maybe it wasn't. At least he did what Bo Schembecler never did, win a National Championship. Carr certainly did not stain the program.

[Spence]

I agree Goboilers, It may have been time for Carr to go. But don't hire a guy who's philosophy is so radically different for what made their program a national power for over 100 years. People are too quick to proclaim genius in CFB. Football isn't rocket science. You move your guy forward and cause theirs to move backward and chances are you will win.
People who think the spread the end all be all trust me, defenses will win the battle before it is all said and done and coaches will go back and try and reinvent the wheel----again. And we will proclaim them genius again----and again they will be doing something that has been done before.

[WoVeU]

I am not defending RR...but they had better know what pulling that trigger means. The next guy might not want the players he recruited for the spread and you extend the dry years. (Something you have to go through...but forward movement would give me much pause.)

[Spence]

I am not defending RR...but they had better know what pulling that trigger means. The next guy might not want the players he recruited for the spread and you extend the dry years. (Something you have to go through...but forward movement would give me much pause.)

Good coaches put a team together based on the talent they have. While not many of Michigan's current players are the players a new coach would want in place, they have a few on defense and several on offense that could be adapted. While RR has recruited some marginal players, a new coach could offense immediate playing time and the promise of a return to glory at the nations winningest football program. That is a lot to sell.

As the Minnesota AD said about replacing Tim Brewster "we should be able to recruit a head coach. We aren't replacing Ara Parseghian."

[WoVeU]

Come on Cane From the Bend!?!? Seriously....it wasn't like the 3 Blind Mice went and joined the SEC...don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Maybe I need to refresh my memory let's see since 04...

Miami
04 - Peach Bowl W 27-10 Florida
05 - Peach Bowl L 40-3 LSU
06 - MPC Computers Bowl W 21-20 Nevada
07 - No Bowl - never heard of this one? Is that in New Orleans too!
08 - Emerald Bowl L 24-17 Cal
09 - Champs Sports Bowl L 20-14 Wisconsin

...Man that is killer, that a 2-3 Record...and that is like a 1-3 Record in Bowls many folks would consider legitimate.

Let,s check on those scrub Eers, you probably never heard of any of these Bowls...
WVU
04 - Gator Bowl L 30-18 FSU
05 - Sugar Bowl W 38-35 Georgia
06 - Gator Bowl W 38-35 Ga. Tech
07 - Fiesta Bowl W 42-28 Oklahoma
08 - Car Care Bowl W 31-30 UNC
09 - Gator Bowl L 33-21 FSU

Yeah, I see your point. They can't beat the ACC, well 1/2 of it anyway. Good thing we didn't play the Turkeys in the other half. And the Eers are only 4-2, but it probably doesn't mean much, the Miami players may have never even heard of those 3 Bowls not named "Gatuh." But I wouldn't expect them to, most penitentiaries don't have cable.

[warrriorsfan808]

First half, Hawaii has picked up two turnovers, and dealt Nevada 4 three and outs, and carry a shutout into the locker room. Hawaii warriors know what the word "defense" means after all.

Up on the spread by 23.5 points... I love Hawaii football.

I could easily adopt Hawaii as my third team. Great atmosphere with all the night games and beautiful surroundings. I have been to a couple of games in Aloha Stadium to see Arkansas and Iowa play Hawaii. They were really fun when June Jones was there. I also knew Stan Sheriff, as he was from Iowa.

Great win over Nevada.

I say that June Jones should be Michigan's next coach

June gets my vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[donovan]

June Jones will be a great hire for most any team, especially one that does not have an already set in program and system.

[Cane from the Bend]

Come on Cane From the Bend!?!? Seriously....it wasn't like the 3 Blind Mice went and joined the SEC...don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Maybe I need to refresh my memory let's see since 04...

Miami
04 - Peach Bowl W 27-10 Florida
05 - Peach Bowl L 40-3 LSU
06 - MPC Computers Bowl W 21-20 Nevada
07 - No Bowl - never heard of this one? Is that in New Orleans too!
08 - Emerald Bowl L 24-17 Cal
09 - Champs Sports Bowl L 20-14 Wisconsin

...Man that is killer, that a 2-3 Record...and that is like a 1-3 Record in Bowls many folks would consider legitimate.

Let,s check on those scrub Eers, you probably never heard of any of these Bowls...
WVU
04 - Gator Bowl L 30-18 FSU
05 - Sugar Bowl W 38-35 Georgia
06 - Gator Bowl W 38-35 Ga. Tech
07 - Fiesta Bowl W 42-28 Oklahoma
08 - Car Care Bowl W 31-30 UNC
09 - Gator Bowl L 33-21 FSU

Yeah, I see your point. They can't beat the ACC, well 1/2 of it anyway. Good thing we didn't play the Turkeys in the other half. And the Eers are only 4-2, but it probably doesn't mean much, the Miami players may have never even heard of those 3 Bowls not named "Gatuh." But I wouldn't expect them to, most penitentiaries don't have cable.

Shame on you, to let your temper blind you that way.

I wasn't scratching my own back, just stating a fact that occurred.

How many times have the Mighty Mountaineers won the Big East conference?

How many times did they win it while Miami and Va Tech were still there?

Now, subtract your bowl appearances from that list above in `08 & `09 because RR wasn't there...

Wasn't that the point of this part of the discussion, or did I miss something? Have you and I started conversing about something else?

Stop acting as though the world is dumping on you , and see what is actually there. This was about Rodriguez, not the Mountaineers... but if you want me to "Pat Myself on the Back" for what the `Canes did... I'll just look at our all time record against the Mountaineers, then polish up a few of those Big East Championships that you could never get your hands on while we were around...

If that is the direction you want this to go, because of your jaded feelings on the issue, let me know... because I could go there with you, if you'd really like to remember those times.

Get over it ... three blind mice ...

That is old feelings over being left behind. The same rhetoric that most Big East schools clamored on about back in `03 - `05 when they were still crying over the departure.

As far as me giving myself props, you must conveniently skip over the masses of my posts, because, just about anyone else on this site could clue you in; I am by far the hardest on my team than anybody. I will be the first to point out our short comings. And I will grill my team for every flaw; even when they win.

Also, I have shown nothing but respect for West Virginia. And my comments about Rodriguez were true; nothing you could possibly add would invalidate them, because of the accuracy in my previous post.

You want to come down on me because of something I've posted, fine, but at least be honest, and do so with dignity... rather than spew on about "It's not like we left for the SEC", when your true feelings reflect, that you are agitated that we simply left... not as to where we ended up.

Don't patronize me with malarkey. Your conference is currently in shambles... and yeah, maybe the ACC is not at the Pinnacle the SEC is... but at least it is not the Big East.

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[WoVeU]

Let me be totally honest...I was agitated when the 3 teams left. The Eers got the short end in those contests for years, and they were clearly improving when they left. I was ready for some redemption...and the whole thing reminded me of when I was 15 and my Dad wouldn't play basketball against me any more. (And he is still undefeated against me, including his last "victory" where he had serious issues with arithmetic and knowing what a foul is!) Especially considering the last game Miami won over WVU in conference....a game they won by 2 and shouldn't have won.

I love your posts, I felt that I was hearing that the any worthiness of the Big East (which I know isn't real high right now) was also pinned to RR...taking away any joy from me in cheering against him. I have some additional irritation when I hear people speak on the Power of the ACC in comparison too the Big East. This because the ACC was FSU, FSU, FSU, and Georgia Tech...with a bit of Maryland. I'd like to see a big dose of truth in their condemnation of the Big East and any reference to the ACC, because thus far, the ACC has been FSU and Va Tech. And people love dumping on the Big East, but they don't talk about the current BCS #1 being given their game (on the 4 yard line) against that little metro college Cincinnati. And to think people think RR did well at WVU because there was no competition and the Michigan experiment shows that...shows how people don't think very deeply. At WVU he was the king, not because of no-comp on the field...but no-comp in recruiting! The spread hadn't been adopted by 60 teams...he could have all of the Slaton's, White's, Devine's, Reynaud's, and Robinson's he wanted.

But I don't worry, I know the success of WVU isn't dependent upon the Big East, the Big East is dependent upon WVU.

[Vileborg]

Actually I underestimated the new coach. I don't know too much about him but he can win and he seems like a real coach. Too early for me to tell as an outsider but he may be on to something.

[WoVeU]

Actually I underestimated the new coach. I don't know too much about him but he can win and he seems like a real coach. Too early for me to tell as an outsider but he may be on to something.

My confidence builds in him. Billybud had expressed some pondering that I had inside but never let out about his "oh, shucks" simple living Mountaineer spirit. But I think he reaches his boys. Similar expressions and persona can be interpreted as weakness by youths...but I think they get him, and likely esteem him in the father figure role. This year and next will fill us in I think.

[Cane from the Bend]

I kinda had a feeling you may have had that last Miami/West Va game on your mind when you posted that comment.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say we shouldn't have won it. Because we had to march the field with little time left to kick a game winner.

But, a finger tip catch by Winslow on 4th down was what kept us from losing...

...

Don't forget, just because the Mountaineers weren't quite so successful verses Miami; improvements or not, you rivalry with Va Tech showcased the strength West Virginia had... the win/loss kinda went back `n' forth between the two of you.

That doesn't make for a weak program.

And you're right, the Big East is relying on West Virginia. Because there isn't another team that is strong enough to compete at their level.

I'd agree that Cinci looked good against Oklahoma... but, so did Air Force, who may be just as good as Cincinnati, if not better.

But the Bearcats aren't winning verse out of conference BCS schools.

Loss to NC State
Loss to Oklahoma

And though they did beat Louisville. The game was a squeaker, and the Cardinals aren't doing very well this season either.

I'm actually disappointed that the Big East isn't doing so well.

There are some traditionally good teams, who have been less than good as of late in the conference.

What happened to Syracuse?
What happened to Pitt
What happened to Rut... no, I cannot type that one seriously

West Virginia, Pittsburgh & Syracuse used to be national contenders, with relatively decent followings. But, with this "Flavor of the Month" society that we live in, unless you are winning now, people just seem uninterested in what you're offering them.

And, unfortunately, for the Big East; West Virginia is the only team with a winning record.

The Mountaineers aren't just carrying the conference on their shoulders... they are pushing, pulling, dragging it up the side of the Mountain-eers.


Yes, I take notice when a Big East team performs well against a top 5 ( I was actually pulling for the Bearcats vs the Sooners ) .

But, unless they actually beat them, and continue to win, then it means little.

Pitt was supposed to be the team to beat in the Big East this year... so far, Utah, Miami & notre dame all have.

The Panthers won their conference opener vs Syracuse with authority, but they do not have a marque out of conference win... just like Cinci.

If West Virginia doesn't get help for somebody inconference soon, the Big East may not be around much longer.

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[WoVeU]

It irks me that things timed out the way they did in several ways.

It is ridiculous that Pitt hasn't climbed the pile. They didn't do a whole lot pre-ACC split and they missed the big bubble that followed. That ain't good my friend! And the same thing for the Cuse. My Lord, Wake Forest has done better, much better. (What kills me, Rutgers is just hauling talent in, or Boston College, or UConn...not loads. But there is weirdness in the North East...do you know how many top 30 FCS schools are up there? Nove, UMass, RI, Delaware, New Hampshire they all do very well. That tells me those 3 schools can not be recruiting too darn well.)

The Big East looks like it may have top 25 programs again in Cinci and Louisville (I think they are moving) but without Pitt...they are not BCS, and the Eers fans can't argue that.)

I don't know when the current BCS contract expires but the Eers better work on some back up plans. Inviting Nova to the Big East does nothing for at least 5 years...and 9 teams is just not enough. They have to get 4 teams and at least 2 that can play Top 25 ball.