Boise State vs. San Jose State

[donovan]

It's never about the best...it is always about the favorites...underdogs or powers.....

Want the two best teams in the country right now....Alabama and Florida State...even though you, my friend are a slumdog millionaire wannabe for the purposes of ambush...

[Spence]

I'm an Ohio State fan. We're not underdogs when we should be underdogs. So I don't care about the David and Goliath story. I also know there is no way to even out schedules - where everyone plays the same strength of schedule. That can't happen and everyone knows that as well. What I want is for teams to be fairly assessed and assigned bowl games to reflect it. If Boise State is one of the top two teams in the country, they should play. If they aren't, then they don't go. I don't care who goes, I just want a system that allows 120 teams a path to the goal. Otherwise the regular season isn't a season long playoff. If is a path for 15 or so teams to win a championship.

I believe a team should "deserve" to go. My problem is with how many teams that are allowed to "deserve" to go. This game has 120 game pieces to choose from, but only 15 are allowed to actually play. That doesn't seem right to me. America is about me being able to work hard and achieve my goals. If someone works harder then me, they may achieve more, but I should be able to prove myself. Right now not many can in CFB.

[donovan]

Spence, exactly the point. The solution seems even more exclusionary.

[Spence]

I get the argument that says a team should "deserve" to go. I have made it myself. I think mid majors - should do what Boise State did, play a couple good teams. I don't think it is fair to ask them to play four straight OOC games with good teams when no one else does that. Notre Dame makes their own schedule and they don't ever play two really tough teams in a row. They schedule byes or sneak in Navy between. Boise State plays in a conference that doesn't have any other teams that are it's peers. They aren't going to play many, if any, in conference that can match their talent level, but they also can't be expected to play four big boys OOC in a row when no one else does it.

I'm not advocating putting any "untested" team in the championship over teams that have been tested. I am for finding a way to compare 120 teams fairly - even if they can't be compared evenly based on schedule strength. Because no conference champ can be compared evenly with another conference champ. The SEC, B-10, PAC-10, ACC, Big East, and B-12 aren't even. The champs of those conferences do not play schedules that match each other. If you find a way to compare teams fairly, then all the teams have the same shot.

[billybud]

Spence...

If any of the SEC, Big Ten, or Big 12, ACC or PAC 10 teams go undefeated, they deserve to go...they will have played a schedule not absolutely full of fluff.

And that isn't 15 teams that have a shot...that is 57 teams that would be deserving if they win. Now admittedly, Boston College won't be playing for the NC on their schedule, but they might on a softer schedule.

[billybud]

What you are saying really is...there are 15 programs who are historically strong and the NC is reserved for them. I call BS.

It should be reserved for teams who play hard and beat other good teams. And it has been. No BCS Champion has played less than four end ranked teams..NONE. And teams coming from a conference with a CCG have p[layed five.

What you are also saying is a team who is undefeated should play for the NC even if they end up a season with one or no win over a end ranked team...the "Ball State effect". I do not agree and we will differ on that, I reckon.

[WoVeU]

BC != Boise St.

[billybud]

Well WoVU...what if I told you that from 2000 to date, Boston College is undefeated against non BCS teams, 23-0. What a schedule made up of those guys would do for the BC Eagles!

[WoVeU]

Well WoVU...what if I told you that from 2000 to date, Boston College is undefeated against non BCS teams, 23-0. What a schedule made up of those guys would do for the BC Eagles!

Oh, they'd do better, and do quite well. But I bet BC's BCS record over the last 5 years doesn't look as good as Boise State's. I'm just saying, Boise State get much higher grades on the eye test...IO have no clue of their record.

[Spence]

What you are saying really is...there are 15 programs who are historically strong and the NC is reserved for them. I call BS.

It should be reserved for teams who play hard and beat other good teams. And it has been. No BCS Champion has played less than four end ranked teams..NONE. And teams coming from a conference with a CCG have p[layed five.

What you are also saying is a team who is undefeated should play for the NC even if they end up a season with one or no win over a end ranked team...the "Ball State effect". I do not agree and we will differ on that, I reckon.

I agree with you, but that is not reality. How many teams have won the NC more than one time in history? I never looked this up, but I would bet you or I or anyone could name the teams. Im not sure I buy that there were no better teams those years. There are teams that only have to win to fly to the top of the rankings and there are teams that have to fight and dig and hope one of the elite loses.

[billybud]

From 2000 through 2007, Boston College won eight straight bowl games (Boise State being their opponent in 2005).

[Eric]

From 2000 through 2007, Boston College won eight straight bowl games (Boise State being their opponent in 2005).

That wasn't a great Boise State team either.

Why am I even commenting on this?

[Cane from the Bend]

I agree with you, but that is not reality. How many teams have won the NC more than one time in history? I never looked this up, but I would bet you or I or anyone could name the teams.

Below is a post from 2006 that answers that question; quite a bit of info, but still all relevant.

Note: I edited out some of the excess from the original post which addressed issues that were being discussed at the time I sent this as a reply, in order to shorten its length; also I took the liberty of adding the last few National Champions since ~ `06 - `07 - `08 -`09

Though, if you want to count the number of repeat champions in all of this... that is a preference I'll leave upto you.

<>

Now I'd like to comment on Spence's last reply.

He is correct, as to say, the college football national championship is a "mythical champioship", as associated with the NCAA.

The game of college football predates the foundation of the NCAA by something like 30 or 40 years.

However, the NCAA College Football Headquarters does in fact recognize these next sources as reliable information on who the National Champions were/are, from the first days of College Football, upto the present. (in other words, should you go to the College Football Hall of Fame, these would be the sources who honor each historic team as the rightful champion)

Note: I am reposting these because I made a slight error the last time I listed them


===========================

the sources accepted for College Football National Championships;

from: 1869 - 1882
The National Championship Foundation


from: 1883 - 1918
Helms Athletic Foundation


from: 1919 - 1935
Helms Athletic Foundation &
College Football Researchers Association


from: 1936 - 1949
Associated Press


from : 1950 - 1957
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)


from: 1958 - 1990
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)


from: 1991 - 1997
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)


from: 1998 - 2005 ( edit to; 2009 )
BCS


===========================

Though, Spence is right when saying that many of the titles awarded during the years in question are disputed by the independant Universities, who steak personal claims to more Championships than they are recognized for.

However, after extensive research, the NCAA compiled a tally of who they assumed were the best resource for information at the time, and lists the following as, what is considered and documented by the College Football's "Hall of Fame" to who the National Champions are recognized on file.

The list of National Champions, from 1869 to 2005, and the accepted source for awarding their titles, are

===========================

from 1869 - 1882 recognized Championship selector:
National Championship Foundation

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee


1869
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1870
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1871
no games played that year


1872
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1873
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1874
Yale
National Championship Foundation


1875
Harvard
National Championship Foundation


1876
Yale
National Championship Foundation


1877
Yale
National Championship Foundation


1878
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1879
Princeton
National Championship Foundation


1880: first shared title
Princeton / Yale
National Championship Foundation

(both teams finished with a 4-0-1 record)


1881
Yale
National Championship Foundation


1882
Yale
National Championship Foundation

============================

from 1883 - 1918 recognized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee


1883
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1884
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1885
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1886
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1887
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1888
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1889
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1890
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1891
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1892
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1893
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1894
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1895
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation


1896
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1897
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation


1898
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1899
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1900
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1901
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation


1902
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation


1903
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1904
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation


1905
Chicago
Helms Athletic Foundation


1906
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1907
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1908
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation


1909
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation


1910
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1911
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation


1912
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1913
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation


1914
Army
Helms Athletic Foundation


1915
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation


1916
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation


1917
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation


1918
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation


===========================

from 1919 - 1935 recognized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization


1919: second shared title

Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association

Illinois
College Football Researchers Association


1920
California
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1921: third shared title

California
College Football Researchers Association

Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation


1922: fourth shared title

Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation

Princeton
College Football Researchers Association


1923
Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association

1924
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1925
Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1926: fifth shared title

Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association

Stanford
Helms Athletic Foundation


1927: sixth shared title

Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation

Yale
College Football Researchers Association


1928
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1929
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1930: seventh shared title

Alabama
College Football Researchers Association

Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation


1931
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1932
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1933
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1934
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


1935
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association


===========================

from 1936 - 1949 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee


1936
Minnesota
Associate Press


1937
Pittsburgh
Associated Press


1938
TCU
Associated Press


1939
Texas A&M
Associated Press


1940
Minnesota
Associated Press


1941
Minnesota
Associated Press


1942
Ohio State
Associated Press


1943
Notre Dame
Associated Press


1944
Army
Associated Press


1945
Army
Associated Press


1946
Notre Dame
Associated Press


1947
Notre Dame
Associated Press


1948
Michigan
Associated Press


1949
Notre Dame
Associated Press


===========================

from 1950 - 1957 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)

Year
National Championship Team
championship selection
committee/organization


1950
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press


1951
Tennessee
Associated Press
United Press


1952
Michigan State
Associated Press
United Press


1953
Maryland
Associated Press
United Press


1954: eighth shared title

Ohio State
Associated Press

UCLA
United Press


1955
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press


1956
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press


1957: ninth shared title

Auburn
Associated Press

Ohio State
United Press


===========================

from 1958 - 1990 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization


1958
LSU
Associated Press
United Press International


1959
Syracuse
Associated Press
United Press International


1960
Minnesota
Associated Press
United Press International


1961
Alabama
Associated Press
United press International


1962
USC
Associated Press
United Press International


1963
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International


1964
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International


1965: tenth shared title

Alabama
Associated Press

Michigan State
United Press International


1966
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International


1967
USC
Associated Press
United Press International


1968
Ohio State
Associated Press
United Press International


1969
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International


1970: elenth shared title

Nebraska
Associated Press

Texas
United Press International


1971
Nebraska
Associated Press
United Press International


1972
Usc
Associated Press
United Press International


1973: twelfth shared title

Alabama
United Press International

Notre Dame
Associated Press


1974: thirteenth shared title

Oklahoma
Associated Press

USC
United Press International


1975
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press International


1976
Pittsburgh
Associated Press
United Press International


1977
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United press International


1978: fourteenth shared title

Alabama
Associated Press

Usc
United press International


1979
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International


1980
Georgia
Associated Press
United Press International


1981
Clemson
Associated press
United press International


1982
Penn State
Associated Press
United Press International


1983
Miami
Associated Press
United press International


1984
BYU
Associated press
United press International


1985
Oklahoma
Associated press
United Press International


1986
Penn State
Associated Press
United press International


1987
Miami
Associated Press
United Press International


1988
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International


1989
Miami
Associated Press
united Press international


1990: fifteenth shared title

Colorado
Associated Press

Georgia Tech
United Press International


===========================

from 1991 - 1997 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization


1991: sixteenth shared title

Miami
Associated Press

Washington
USA Today/CNN


1992
Alabama
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN


1993
florida state
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN


1994
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN


1995
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN


1996
Florida
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN


1997: seventeenth shared title

Michigan
Associated Press

Nebraska
USA Today/CNN


===========================

from 1998 - 2005 "Official" Championship selector:
BCS

Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization


1998
Tennessee
BCS


1999
florida state
BCS


2000
Oklahoma
BCS


2001
Miami
BCS


2002
Ohio State
BCS


2003: * unofficial shared title

LSU
BCS

* USC
Associated Press


2004
USC
BCS


2005
Texas
BCS


2006
Florida
BCS


2007
LSU
BCS


2008
Florida
BCS


2009
Alabama
BCS


===========================


And that's history folks.


<>

So there you have it... I did the research for you; now you can choose whether or not you want to count the number of championships accumulated for each individual team.


.

.

.

[Spence]

I don't have it in me to count. I am surpised by how many Pitt has won, but I think for the most part what I said would pan out.

[Spence]

Back in the day Helms was a biggie.