Place to read, comment about Boise St.

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Cane from the Bend
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:25 am

donovan wrote: Start over, decide what you want...if it is a National Champion...get the teams allowed to enter the "holier than thou" arena and figure out a bunch of round robin conferences, heck with geographical alignment, play the games and have some play off system of the conference winners that will have to compete with the close of the school year.



You could never get a round robin system, without re-aligning every conference; narrowing them all down to ten... which would work as a 12 conference with 10 programs each.

A play off would be still unnecessary, as long as the conferences all balanced with major, mid, and minor teams; then implemented Spence's idea, playing OoC competitors against their relative strength peers...

Each team would have 3 OoC games, played against similarly ranked opponents ; or similarly unranked for those near the bottom.

This would clear out alot of the undefeated controversy, all while giving us the best out of every conference, with true parity... though, the Big Conferences will never let that happen... because it splits the major schools into smaller groups, and brings in less capital.

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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby silverfox » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:12 am

There is no argument about that Billybud.

Unfortunately those teams prefer mostly to play themselves and they don't have time, money or inclination to go outside their own group that often. That has been well discussed and documented by others on these boards.

I have never said that BSU should be ranked over those teams have I?

It is a system that is broke. Since Boise State is playing by the rules set by the system them don't take it out on them. Fix the system. Quit putting down the team for dominating their conference just because they are the best in that conference. They didn't make the rules they just play the game.

Fix the system.

Fix the system.

its broke and needs to be fixed. :idea:
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:34 am

Silverfox...I don't put down Boise for dominating their conference and only losing two conference games in ten years....But it is what it is. It's like if FSU played in the MAC and scheduled a couple of decent teams in OOC.

Heck, I'm sort of understanding about the conference. FSU went some years in the ACC without a loss....and folks accused FSU, like Boise, of being the prettiest girl in fat camp. BUT, unlike Boise, FSU also played one of the nation's toughest SOS's while doing so.

When FSU won it's first NC in 1993, they were undefeated in conference but played teams that FINISHED AP ...#2, #3, #5, #15, and #19. If Boise does that, I have no problems. If Boise ends up playing one end ranked team...they are not deserving IMHO.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:40 am

I'm not a big fan of the voters now - although I always was before. I have witnessed then manipulating the vote in the 6 years. If you get an honest vote, I don't see a big problem with the system, but If they are going to manipulate the vote to get a result, then it has to be scraped. The current voters - especially the coaches - should lose their votes. Too much conflict of interest.

If Boise State goes to the championship game and wins - they prove they should be there. If they go and lose, but play a good game - they prove that they probably deserve to be there. If they lose bady, they prove that their record only due to their schedule and they will probably never get back to the game. Either way, everyone finds out. The problem, as I see it, is if they win it opens up the process to all teams and not just a few and shows that bias was the only thing keeping them out. People have a hard time dealing when their preception of what is right is proven wrong.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:48 am

Nope Spence...any one of the top 10 teams could probably "prove that they should be there" in the game itself...

It is the proof that you have had a season worthy of a champion...a season better than the other teams vieing for the spot that is important.

Heck man...a two loss Bama or Arkansas might prove that should be there in the game itself.

You are being retroactive. The point is you have to "show" that you have been better than the other contenders to get the invite.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:48 am

Just go with the computers....
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:52 am

billybud wrote:Nope Spence...any one of the top 10 teams could probably "prove that they should be there" in the game itself...

It is the proof that you have had a season worthy of a champion...a season better than the other teams vieing for the spot that is important.

Heck man...a two loss Bama or Arkansas might prove that should be there in the game itself.

You are being retroactive. The point is you have to "show" that you have been better than the other contenders to get the invite.



Alabama could. The point isn't to "show" you have been better or if it is it doesn't do a very good job of that most years.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby billybud » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:05 pm

If you get down to it...Boise State's signature win has been the three point come from behind win against VT in the last minutes.

And not too much else to talk about.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Eric » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:24 pm

billybud wrote:If you get down to it...Boise State's signature win has been the three point come from behind win against VT in the last minutes.

And not too much else to talk about.


That game was though pretty much the equivalent of a Thursday night game in Blacksburg. The Hokies were the "home" team there.

At what point does the SOS take away from the apparent strength of a football team though? Alabama beating Penn State, Tennessee, and Florida may look terrific on paper, but in reality those teams aren't appreciably better (if it all) when compared to a team like Oregon State. Here's what we know about Boise State: They defeated Virginia Tech in a hostile environment (not the same VT team that lost to James Madison), they handled a decent Oregon State team, and they are going to win every conference game by at least 30 points give or take a few against Nevada like a top 5 school should. Alabama beating a slew of teams ranked somewhere between 45-70 nationally doesn't really inflate their case versus Boise State. It's like buying three lottery tickets versus one lottery ticket, your chances don't change exponentially. To complete the analogy, Boise State has the look of a very good team and has taken care of business with a few quality wins. Maybe you can say the quantity of quality wins can take precedence when one team isn't clearly better than the other, but by no means does it have to be a deciding factor.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:26 pm

Eric wrote:
billybud wrote:If you get down to it...Boise State's signature win has been the three point come from behind win against VT in the last minutes.

And not too much else to talk about.


That game was though pretty much the equivalent of a Thursday night game in Blacksburg. The Hokies were the "home" team there.

At what point does the SOS take away from the apparent strength of a football team though? Alabama beating Penn State, Tennessee, and Florida may look terrific on paper, but in reality those teams aren't appreciably better (if it all) when compared to a team like Oregon State. Here's what we know about Boise State: They defeated Virginia Tech in a hostile environment (not the same VT team that lost to James Madison), they handled a decent Oregon State team, and they are going to win every conference game by at least 30 points give or take a few against Nevada like a top 5 school should. Alabama beating a slew of teams ranked somewhere between 45-70 nationally doesn't really inflate their case versus Boise State. It's like buying three lottery tickets versus one lottery ticket, your chances don't change exponentially. To complete the analogy, Boise State has the look of a very good team and has taken care of business with a few quality wins. Maybe you can say the quantity of quality wins can take precedence when one team isn't clearly better than the other, but by no means does it have to be a deciding factor.



Exactly.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Eric » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:29 pm

Well if Alabama went undefeated with wins over Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, and the SEC East champ, I think they get in over Boise no question about it. But with one loss, you have a discussion.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Eric wrote:Well if Alabama went undefeated with wins over Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, and the SEC East champ, I think they get in over Boise no question about it. But with one loss, you have a discussion.


I agree with that as well, but if you really consider the body of work, most of Oregon's wins Boise would be favored. Same goes for Michigan State and TCU. Most of those schools have played better teams then Boise State, but that isn't the issue. Did most of those teams play schools that would probably beat Boise State or where Boise State would be the underdog. I think the answer to that is no and for me, that is the issue.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby donovan » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:02 pm

billybud wrote:If you get down to it...Boise State's signature win has been the three point come from behind win against VT in the last minutes.

And not too much else to talk about.


For not much else to talk about...seems all we do. As for FSU....I think they should be well in the hunt...I think they have emerged as a top team this year....and in spite of your Spencian position of downplaying your team...they are good. And....for the record as anyone cares...the team I never talk about that is the one I wished would kick it up and get going...is just taking the gas pipe week after week. And my other team, the UW is so dismal....if it were not for my obnoxious friends I would never look at the purple and gold.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby Spence » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:19 pm

donovan wrote:
billybud wrote:If you get down to it...Boise State's signature win has been the three point come from behind win against VT in the last minutes.

And not too much else to talk about.


For not much else to talk about...seems all we do. As for FSU....I think they should be well in the hunt...I think they have emerged as a top team this year....and in spite of your Spencian position of downplaying your team...they are good. And....for the record as anyone cares...the team I never talk about that is the one I wished would kick it up and get going...is just taking the gas pipe week after week. And my other team, the UW is so dismal....if it were not for my obnoxious friends I would never look at the purple and gold.


Spencian I like that. Maybe I can have an era. :lol:

I don't think I down play my team at all, though, I think I am dead on about them. If I think they are really good, I will say that. I just need to see an active ability to play power football and run the ball to think Ohio State can is good. That is my problem with Oregon as well. I think a team needs to do more than be a power running team (which is my problem with Alabama), but I believe to be a great team you have to be able to impose your will on the other team when the time comes and finish games. I haven't seen that out of any team for a while.
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Re: Place to read, comment about Boise St.

Postby ..fanatic » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:30 pm

I will say only this - we NEED Boise State in the title game against a BCS-AQ school. The matchup may shut everyone up, one way or another. If Boise State wins or keeps it close, everyone can finally say they belong. If Boise State wins big, the naysayers can all eat their crumb cake. If Boise State loses bad, we can all say they don't belong.

For now, this horse has been rode hard, put up wet, tied, beaten, shot multiple times and distributed around the world as bottles of Elmer's glue.
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