It is Official: Ohio State vs. Boise State

[silverfox]

At least on the "University Presidents Level" ---

Whew looks at the sparks fly... Opening kick-off could pit BCS vs. Play-offs ...TCU jumps in fray as well...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5845736

[donovan]

Well...maybe the mask of hypocrisy has come off. I think your president, Spence, owes an apology to the Little Sisters of the Poor. [url] http://www.littlesistersofthepoor.org/
[/url]

Gee (to The Associated Press): "...[H]aving been both a Southeastern Conference president and a Big Ten president, that it's like murderer's row every week for these schools. We do not play the Little Sisters of the Poor. We play very fine schools on any given day. So I think until a university runs through that gantlet that there's some reason to believe that they not be the best teams to [be] in the big ballgame."

[Jason G]

Sometimes I think I am the only person in the Columbus, Ohio metro area that disagrees with Mr. Gee's sentiments.

I understand that schools like Ohio State, Wisconsin, Stanford, and LSU may be better than a Boise State or TCU and that those teams in the BCS conferences probably play a tougher conference schedule than those in the non-AQ conferences.

My question, though, is this.... If the truly 'best' team in the country for any given year actually did reside in a non-AQ conference, how would we know? Who would you expect them to play? They have to play their conference games, don't they?

Mr. Gee, between Ohio State and Boise State, who is playing the tougher team this week? Check the rankings (as unreliable as they may be) before you answer. Also, who played the tougher non-conference schedule, you know that part of the slate that the schools actually schedule themselves? Who's tougher, Miami or Virginia Tech? How about Oregon State or Marshall?

[billybud]

Must have beeen reading from billybud's notes....Boise plays a lot of fodder. Many teams schedule a school for fodder...but Boise plays fewer strong teams and more weak teams than many. In the Top Ten, I would give Boise the nod over Wisconsin and Ohio State (who's schedules aren't that tough...but would have Auburn and LSU over the Broncos based on schedule strength.

Boise hasn't played a team now in the top 10 and LSU and Auburn have each played two and have played more teams that are currently ranked. Oregon has played a #19 schedule.

The bottom of Boise's schedule is pitiful, and there are not enough good teams to make a competitive schedule with the SEC teams or Oregon.


San Jose State...9 losses...ranked #157...about 45 AA teams ranked higher.......an awful, awful, team...

New Mexico State...9 losses....ranked # 164...makes playing McNeese State look OK.....a team that makes Duke look like a power.

Wyoming......9 losses....ranked #107...just a bottom feeder but there are a few worse teams in IA

[RazorHawk]

My question, though, is this.... If the truly 'best' team in the country for any given year actually did reside in a non-AQ conference,how would we know?

Exactly, but if there is a need to determine the top team for the year, a playoff is the only answer. Otherwise it is just a guess and a vote to determine the top 2 teams to then settle it on the field.

[billybud]

Jason...we wouldn't know anymore than we know if the best team is actually selected when they are from a BCS conference.

What we do know is that a team has shown a reasonable facsimile of being the best when they beat a good schedule...

You have a championship season by beating good teams...and beating end ranked teams has been the gold standard.

[billybud]

How do we know that 10 win Delaware, Bethune Cookman, or Jacksonville may not be as good as nine win Nebraska?

We really don't know but we surmise that they aren't playing opponewnts of the same level and that wins aren't wins.....there is a value attached to a win.

[Jason G]

I understand the sentiment that a school like BSU or TCU doesn't play as good of teams. My point is that it isn't their fault that they don't if they try to schedule competitively out of conference. How can a school like Boise State or TCU legitimately make a claim to the naional championship in your eyes? They can't help how weak their league is anymore than SEC schools can't help how tough their's is. All they can do is try to schedule competitively for those few non-conference games. So, again, if one of them truly was the best team, are you saying they should be excluded based on the schedule they were forced to play?

Maybe there are too many conference games? Cut those down and go to a systematic schedule in non-conference games? I don't know the answer.

[donovan]

He is President of one of the largest schools in the country; he is not a poster on a message board. The ridiculousness of his statement is the part that he claims "every week" and we do not play "Little Sister's of the Poor." Do I need to post Ohio State's schedule and remind us all of some teams they have scheduled. The words we have heard, paraphrased, " Ohio State will play anyone, you just have to come to us." " Call us and if you will travel, we will play you." were spoken in sincerity and belief, but obviously, the Ohio State fans have been duped as to what is really going on. I have no problem with the criticism of the TCU's and Boise's for their schedule. That is not the issue. The issue is the blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty. In my opinion this dishonesty is far worse than some quarterback's dad asking for a ridiculously low sum of money for his school to play football. This is a guy who brags he has been in these positions of leadership and helped form a system where all these "fodder" schools were invited and there was never an intention or a thought they would ever win the race. And when the time has come that is seems almost inevitable the situation has to be addressed, we reveal what was our thinking all along.

One charlatan does not make a University, but they can destroy years of reputation. Good start.

[silverfox]

It is a sad day for college football... and interesting as the dust settles and the sobering realization that the worst nightmare of the BCS is about to happen...

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/11/2 ... ident.html

[billybud]

Jason..

For starters, Boise could have scheduled Nebraska instead of playing hard to get. You have to play more than one end ranked team to be a champion. So you have to do what it takes.

In 1993, FSU won the NC. The Noles scheduled Notre Dame (finished AP #2), Florida (finished AP #5), Miami (AP #15) and played North Carolina (#19) and Clemson (#23) in conference. That is five end ranked AP teams not including the bowl win..

In 1979, FSU was undefeated at the end of the regular season but really had no shot at a national championship. FSU played no end ranked AP team so FSU was ranked #6 going into the bowls. FSU, in 1979, was Boise.

In 1980...FSU scheduled end ranked #2 Pittsburgh, end ranked #7 Nebraska, and #18 Miami in OOC...only loss was to Miami to be end ranked #5.

You have to play and beat good teams...if you have a "weak sister" conference schedule...it is imperative that you load up in OOC.

[donovan]

Mr. Billybud....the Elitist bigotry has been exposed...your arguments are valid...but no longer the issue.

[Spence]

I think the elitist bigotry had been exposed long before now. Gee just gave Boise State and TCU a chance to use their soapbox. Honestly, Dr. Gee doesn't know the difference between a touchdown and a field goal. He goes to every game and has never watched one minute of it. He is a lawyer by degree, but he is one hundred percent nutty professor.

People with any football IQ know that Boise State and TCU are good football teams. The bias comes in where people who are part of major conferences think you should play a stronger schedule to be eligible, although no such rule exists. We also all know that even football teams from major conferences know that they play, at most, five teams and usually three or four that are really their peers every year. It is possible for a mid major to include enough good teams in their OOC schedule to equal a major conference team, but it is highly unlikely they would do it, since it makes no sense for them to do it.

Teams like Minnesota, in the B-10, have long used their OOC schedule to get bowl eligible because they couldn't do well in conference play. Boise State has used a model like that to become championship game eligible. (not comparing Minnesota to Boise State - that isn't the intention here at all - just the idea of how to achieve a goal) That doesn't mean Boise State is a bad team or that they aren't good enough to be ranked. The problem most people have is they think Boise State has to prove it along the way and Boise State wants to prove it in the NCG. That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Boise State and TCU have found a formula that provides a path for them to the championship and the powers that be from the major confernces don't like people upsetting their apple cart. Both sides have legit points. Boise State does play a schedule weaker than most major conference championship game contender. Boise State also didn't make the rules they are just working inside the rules to further their goals. In a year where their are really no strong teams or at least no teams that have really proven anything, this year is the perfect storm for either Boise State or TCU or both.

The problem with the BCS is that too many people are trying to manipulate the system. The schools, the voters, and last but not least the media who want to make playoff money and get rid of the bowls that suck them dry.

[billybud]

The problem with Boise is not that they aren't good...but that a dozen other teams would be undefeated on their schedule.

The problem of equity cuts both ways...a team that plays a schedule ranked in the top 25 in strength and loses a game (like LSU) has to wonder why a team who plays a schedule in the bottom third in toughness, yet loses none, would be getting the nod.

The difficulty of winning must be taken into account....Oregon and Auburn right now have no difficulty defending their right to play based on their body of work...neither would a one loss LSU or a two loss Arkansas.

Losing two games playing a killer schedule just may be better than beating a weakl schedule...equity does go both directions.

Being undefeated has become the end all...and that is a shame. I vote for Delaware.

[Jason G]

Jason..

For starters, Boise could have scheduled Nebraska instead of playing hard to get. You have to play more than one end ranked team to be a champion. So you have to do what it takes.

In 1993, FSU won the NC. The Noles scheduled Notre Dame (finished AP #2), Florida (finished AP #5), Miami (AP #15) and played North Carolina (#19) and Clemson (#23) in conference. That is five end ranked AP teams not including the bowl win..

In 1979, FSU was undefeated at the end of the regular season but really had no shot at a national championship. FSU played no end ranked AP team so FSU was ranked #6 going into the bowls. FSU, in 1979, was Boise.

In 1980...FSU scheduled end ranked #2 Pittsburgh, end ranked #7 Nebraska, and #18 Miami in OOC...only loss was to Miami to be end ranked #5.

You have to play and beat good teams...if you have a "weak sister" conference schedule...it is imperative that you load up in OOC.

Agreed, but when the Oregon State game was scheduled they thought they were scheduling a probable end-ranked team and probably foresaw the possibilty of an end-ranked Nevada and possibly even Fresno State within their conference. Boise should not be penalized for the Beavers and FSU not being as good as forecast. For what its worth in 1979 I would have been arguing for Florida State's cause because you can't control how well the teams on your OOC schedule perform let alone how your conference foes fare.