It is Official: Ohio State vs. Boise State

[donovan]

It all comes down to a simple question-why do we bring up FCS schools in FBS conversations?

I think it is very relevant...and actually part of the problem. Schools...and some big schools play these games and the W L counts just like every other game. And...it does not affect the SOS in any significant way. SOS is a big secret. Nobody knows how a particular rater figures it. And they are all over the place. If you are going to fall into the pit of delusional football and have rankings of teams that never play, you have to have SOS. FCS teams, in my opinion, somehow never penalize the Elite schools. I will now go worry about World Peace, or something else that makes more sense than the current ranking systems.

[billybud]

BYUfan...both Massey (BCS) and Sagarin (BCS) rank the whole of Division I together. These are the polls that influence the BCS points and it is their methodology.

I mention it because it is germane and I think you are fairly clueless about my "agendas". I am for a champion playing a championship season that means beating good teams.

I also mention that Ohio State, this year, has not played a champion's schedule compared to Auburn-Oregon.

Maybe, just maybe, your "whole agenda" is pumping up non BCS teams. Ya think?

[silverfox]

My point from awhile back. The "weighting" of the computer formulas. I never knew Sagarin was using both divisions in his calcs. Therefore it IS weighted like I contended. I find this entire situation distasteful and very heavily slanted.

Anyone who uses the Vegas line as part of the basis for rankings of college football teams and who is able to use it to validate BCS rankings is corrupt and should be investigated. I speak firmly and frankly. I am disgusted.

Its time for a playoff system. Its the only way to make sense of all this insanity. I was opposed to it until I read the post that both divisions were included in the Sagarin ratings. I will never EVER consider those rankings to be a basis of anything except corruption again.

I am very sick to my stomach now. This needs to be investigated by the highest levels and I am not kidding. Throw the stones that you want but remember, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones. I left these boards before because of the same rhetoric but came back because I felt this was a more fairer place to enjoy my college football passion.

But if the BCS builds its ranking system on known fallacies and in part on the Vegas line then they are corrupt and need to be grinched out. College football is being corrupted by cigar smoking gamblers who want to manipulate the results to advance their own addictive greed. Let the field in an open and honest manner decide the outcome -- not a backroom with figures and odds and cigar smoking idiots determine who does what and when.

signing out totally disgusted...

-Silverfox

[Spence]

BYUfan...both Massey (BCS) and Sagarin (BCS) rank the whole of Division I together. These are the polls that influence the BCS points and it is their methodology.

I mention it because it is germane and I think you are fairly clueless about my "agendas". I am for a champion playing a championship season that means beating good teams.

I also mention that Ohio State, this year, has not played a champion's schedule compared to Auburn-Oregon.

Maybe, just maybe, your "whole agenda" is pumping up non BCS teams. Ya think?

I don't think anyone is advocating Ohio State making the championship game. I don't think it has been a topic for at least six weeks.

[donovan]

I think it is entirely reasonable some rankers use both FBS and FCS. Do you want the best team in the country or not. Rank High schools for all I care. Rank the "Little Sisters of the Poor." You can not have it both ways. If you are going to rank and believe this is a way to get the best team in the country then stop the hypocrisy of only ranking some teams. I understand and appreciate Silverfoxes frustration. But a playoff does not prove a thing if you do not have the two best teams playing. Of course no matter what you do you will not have that...but that is what this is all about.

PS.....go back to the conference system of 20 years..or something ago and then...you knew who the best team in a conference was. They did it the old fashioned way, they won games. At least then you were down to 10 or 12 teams to choose from to get a NC game, if that is what you want. Seems a lot like interview potential employees. Give me ten and I may pick the best one. Give me 120 or 240 and...well...just hire quick and fire quicker.

[Spence]

I think if you are of the mind to rank teams you should try and find the best team in a division. That is hard enough as is witnessed by the massive argument that has engulfed college football over the last twenty or thirty years. FCS has their own system of getting to number one, they don't want to give that up to finish near the bottom of the FBS system.

[BYUfan1]

BYUfan...both Massey (BCS) and Sagarin (BCS) rank the whole of Division I together. These are the polls that influence the BCS points and it is their methodology.

I mention it because it is germane and I think you are fairly clueless about my "agendas". I am for a champion playing a championship season that means beating good teams.

I also mention that Ohio State, this year, has not played a champion's schedule compared to Auburn-Oregon.

Maybe, just maybe, your "whole agenda" is pumping up non BCS teams. Ya think?

Thanks so much for not answering most of the questions that I asked. First of all Division I is an archaic term since we use FBS and FCS now. I wish you did answer why Sagarin doesn't rank Division II and Division III schools because I am trying to figure how can Sagarin can give accurate numbers to schools like Georgia State and Delaware when Georgia State played Shorter and Lambuth, and Delaware played West Chester but those schools don't have rating numbers. I didn't bother going through all the schedules of FCS schools, but I can only assume that these two schools are not the only ones that played teams that are neither FBS or FCS.

Funny how you believe in the Sagarin but you dismiss teams that are not in the top 25 in the coaches poll but receive votes when the coaches poll is also part of the BCS point system.

Maybe I am wrong, but I do not believe there are any FCS coaches that get to vote in the FBS Coaches Poll. I am also not sure if there is any FCS representation in the Harris Poll. Again, I am not sure if an FCS school can play for a FBS Championship, but it seems odd that they only get represented in one third of the polls that make up the BCS.

Lastly, there is at least one team I root for in every FBS conference, so I do not believe I have any particular agenda, I just question sometimes the attacks of non AQ schools just like I questioned the rationale of kicking Vanderbilt out of the SEC in a different thread.

[billybud]

BYUguy...why don't you rail on about Massey's Poll. It also ranks all of Division I in a continuum.

Can anyone tell me, in unemotional terms, what is the real problem with ranking all of the teams that play in Division I? Can anyone show me where it makes on whit of difference in the BCS standings?

Silverfox...take a nap, son, and you'll be calmer and less sick. The Vegas line is not used in any BCS Poll....

However, the Vegas line is the best predictor of a winner and the closer a ranking system comes to the Vegas line...the more valid the ranking.

[billybud]

I am very sick to my stomach now. This needs to be investigated by the highest levels and I am not kidding. Throw the stones that you want but remember, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones. I left these boards before because of the same rhetoric but came back because I felt this was a more fairer place to enjoy my college football passion.

I suggest that you are overwrought about football. Your shrillness is emotional reaction without much understanding behind it.

I do know that it appears that you don't know how the BCS point system is affected by various inputs, evidenced by erroneous statements.

Finally, leaving the board is always a personal decision (unless one is banned, a rare occurrance). My simple dictum in life...life is too short to waste much energy on that which does not give you joy and really isn't that important. As a younger man, I didn't heed that. As a guy who has wrestled with cancer and a mild heart attack, I found a way.

Become a Vulcan. Discuss with rational thought and leave the emotional baggage behind as much as possible.

[Spence]

Can anyone tell me, in unemotional terms, what is the real problem with ranking all of the teams that play in Division I? Can anyone show me where it makes on whit of difference in the BCS standings?

It doesn't make much difference. It does make a difference in that it lets teams who play FCS teams get credit for their ranking - not that it makes a lots of difference either way - but there is some credit that shows up in schedule strength. It used to not count at all. That is a difference, a small one but a difference.

[billybud]

I think if you are of the mind to rank teams you should try and find the best team in a division. That is hard enough as is witnessed by the massive argument that has engulfed college football over the last twenty or thirty years. FCS has their own system of getting to number one, they don't want to give that up to finish near the bottom of the FBS system.

That is EXACTLY what we do now. Try to find the best two teams in FBS. Crazy posturing by people that don't understand rankings. And are not interested enough to learn.

Sagarin does, as does Massey, rank all of the BCS and FCS teams together...but they both do a sort for FBS only.

New Mexico State, for instance, is #113 in Sagarin FBS and #116 in Massey FBS...it is only interesting for those comparing relative strengths of the whole Division I to peruse the whole chart. Sagarin and Massey (as well as a dozen others) issue separate FCS rankings and FBS rankings.

If folks want to see how teams fit in JUST the FBS...look at the FBS rankings.

...............................Sagarin............................Massey

New Mexico St...............113.................................116
San Jose......................107.................................113
Wyoming......................92...................................99

[Spence]

I am very sick to my stomach now. This needs to be investigated by the highest levels and I am not kidding. Throw the stones that you want but remember, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones. I left these boards before because of the same rhetoric but came back because I felt this was a more fairer place to enjoy my college football passion.

You should be an Ohio State fan. We are hated if we win, even more hated when we lose. Some of it we bring on ourselves. We have fan bases all over the place - on game days Buckeye fans will kind of take over a sports bar in other states and that causes tension. I went to a B-dubs in Orlando for the Indiana game (yes Indiana) to watch the game. It was 99% Ohio State fans and the 1% of fans there to watch another game were uncomfortable. It builds resentment. Teams that win get to be hated. The more they win, the more hated they are and there if you lose, there is always someone to tell you about how you don't belong. Boise State is garnering respect for winning. There are going to be people standing in line to hate you because you win. USC and Florida are the super hated now. People are loving them losing, after a while if they don't get better, people will move on to hate someone else.

If people hate your team, and they will especially on a non team specific site like this, just remember it is lots more fun to be hated and winning, then people not caring and have your team losing.

We are all fanatics for the sport and our teams or we wouldn't be here.

[billybud]

However you cut the cheese...those three teams are not very good...that's all that the rankings, of any type will tell you.

They aren't the exact worst in FBS...there are a few worse teams...and yes, there are some better teams in FCS....all of this is true.

[Spence]

However you cut the cheese...those three teams are not very good...that's all that the rankings, of any type will tell you.

They aren't the exact worst in FBS...there are a few worse teams...and yes, there are some better teams in FCS....all of this is true.

I agree. You ask for a difference and they never used to give FCS a thought in rankings. Now they do, not a big deal, but why give teams credit for FCS teams. That just incourages more FCS play. What if an FCS team beats a couple good teams in FBS and then goes and plays their schedule. Should they be considered to be FBS champs? Silly?

[billybud]

Why play FCS teams? For the same reasons that the Big Ten plays MAC teams, as non competitive as they have been.

Fairly local teams that can be used to build out a schedule with seven home games and five away.

The quality of the games aren't high, but they are at home and make money for the program.