It is Official: Ohio State vs. Boise State

[billybud]

Silly question...

What if an FCS team beats a couple good teams in FBS and then goes and plays their schedule. Should they be considered to be FBS champs? Silly?

Almost like ..What if a non BCS team beats a couple of good teams in BCS conferences and then goes on and plays their schedule. Should they be considered FBS Champs.

You know my answer to both...and they are based on the same premise of having a couple of good wins and a non competitive schedule.

[Spence]

Yes, I know you answer, but if you include someone in your rankings why shouldn't they have a shot to win? That is the whole point of this. If you give me a game place I want to play. If you don't want me to play, don't give me a game piece.

[RazorHawk]

Yes, I know you answer, but if you include someone in your rankings why shouldn't they have a shot to win? That is the whole point of this. If you give me a game place I want to play. If you don't want me to play, don't give me a game piece.

With that kind of rationale, the Big 10 should probably only have 3 or 4 teams in the conference. Yeah almost 50 years ago, Indiana won, Minnesota probably more than 50, etc. etc.

[billybud]

LOL...he"ll tell you that they have a shot to win...

Just like a MAC team has a shot to beat Ohio State. Just because it has never happened doesn't mean it couldn't.

Just like a cocker spaniel in a greyhound race technically has a shot to win..(they are in the race).

[Spence]

Yes, I know you answer, but if you include someone in your rankings why shouldn't they have a shot to win? That is the whole point of this. If you give me a game place I want to play. If you don't want me to play, don't give me a game piece.

With that kind of rationale, the Big 10 should probably only have 3 or 4 teams in the conference. Yeah almost 50 years ago, Indiana won, Minnesota probably more than 50, etc. etc.

I'm not asking you to handicap this system. Indiana, right now, has a clear path to a B-10 title. They just need to win more games than anyone else. That isn't the case with rankings. Teams do not have a clear path and there is no system in place that gives them one. Indiana has a game piece as far as the B-10 is concerned. No one is saying they don't have to take that game piece and win the game with it, just that they have a clear path to the finish line. The way the current system is set up some teams need to win their games and they are in. Some need to jump the bush and slide under the fence, then win their games and they are in. Some other teams have to jump the bush, swim the lake, duck under the branch, slide under the fence, and win all their games and they are put in a drawing to see if their name is picked out of the hat - if no one from the other two catagories are there first - and they are in. They problem is not that a team is or isn't good enough, does or doesn't play a strong enough schedule, or wins all of their games. The problem is the path is different for everyone. We need to put everyone on the same track. If you play Augusta National from the tips the week of the masters and I play my home course from the senior tees, I could probably beat you. That is your point and it isn't fair, I understand that. But telling me I am part of the team and making me practice,pay my dues, and telling me to keep after it I might one day get to play isn't fair either.

[billybud]

And...what Spence is ignoring is that the ranking is all smoke screen...they rank on just FBS and they rank together.

A bad FBS team is a bad FBS team...a FCS team, if you play one, needs to be fit in somewhere on the SOS scale.

The NCAA could do what they do to non Division I teams and severely penalize you for scheduling them but FBS must schedule FCS teams...

We can't all schedule the MAC.

[billybud]

Look...you can't have 120 teams and be "fair"

The bottom dwellars can't compete with the top and never will. And it isn't fair to let a team play dumplings and play for a title while pretending that the wins over dumplings means the same as wins over a top 25 schedule.

Wins MUST have value. If not, Delaware is undefeated and the only thing separating Auburn and Delaware is the value of their wins.

[Spence]

No, everyone can't scedule in the MAC, but there is always the Sunbelt and C-USA. They are no better. Historically the MAC is lots better than the Sun Belt.

And you can be fair to all teams. It takes someone creating scheduing up and down every conference playing every other conference. The best teams playing the best teams and the worst playing the worst from all the difference conferences. It wouldn't even be hard to set up. It would cause some travel expenses to go up, but it would pay for itself in great matchups and bigger TV ratings early in the year. Then we wouldn't have teams scheduling Samford, Louisiana Monroe, or Charleston Southern.

[BYUfan1]

Why play FCS teams? For the same reasons that the Big Ten plays MAC teams, as non competitive as they have been.

Fairly local teams that can be used to build out a schedule with seven home games and five away.

The quality of the games aren't high, but they are at home and make money for the program.

Non-competitive games with MAC schools? How soon you have forgotten Northern Illinois over Minnesota, Northern Illinois over Purdue, Toledo over Purdue, Central Michigan over Michigan State, and Ball State over Indiana in just the last 3 years.

[Eric]

Why play FCS teams? For the same reasons that the Big Ten plays MAC teams, as non competitive as they have been.

Fairly local teams that can be used to build out a schedule with seven home games and five away.

The quality of the games aren't high, but they are at home and make money for the program.

Non-competitive games with MAC schools? How soon you have forgotten Northern Illinois over Minnesota, Northern Illinois over Purdue, Toledo over Purdue, Central Michigan over Michigan State, and Ball State over Indiana in just the last 3 years.

None of those Big 10 teams were that great. I think you and Billybud are talking past each other. Usually Billybud's context is in terms of national ranking or national title contention. The MAC has an overall non-competitive record against the Big 10, especially ones that end up with winning records.

[BYUfan1]

BYUguy...why don't you rail on about Massey's Poll. It also ranks all of Division I in a continuum.

Can anyone tell me, in unemotional terms, what is the real problem with ranking all of the teams that play in Division I? Can anyone show me where it makes on whit of difference in the BCS standings?

Again, there is no longer any such thing as Division I in football. The terms now are FBS and FCS. Obviously, it makes some difference if more than one computer puts the two subvisions together since only the lowest and highest computer ranking are thrown out when figuring out the average. There would have been a difference in the BCS standings the first time they came out this year if Ohio State would have beaten Wisconsin since some computer polls had Delaware ahead of Ohio State. I don't know if there is any controversy now because I only know the computer rankings of the top-25 BCS schools not the rankings of each individual computer poll.

I don't attack Massey's Poll because I have never seen it or ever heard of it until you mentioned it. If Sagarin does a separate list for just FBS schools, why don't use that one in your arguments?

Can you tell me, in unemotional terms, the real problem with ranking Division II and Division III schools together with FBS and FCS schools? Personally, I would love to see a poll that had Mount Union ranked ahead of Florida State, just as an example.

[donovan]

Collegiate football is just like Topsy, it just grew. A rudderless ship in a storm tossed sea. And now we have millions, or at least 37 fans, trying guide it into celestial realms. Not happening. It is like the airplane co-pilot that says, "We are going 600 mph, where are we going?" The Pilot. "I don't know, but we are making good time."

What is nuts, last Friday, how could you ask for better entertainment that day than was given us by college football. Hard to imagine better games. Making good time, but no clue where we are heading.

[Eric]

There is still a Division I. Schools like Kennesaw State and San Diego are considered D1 in most sports, but football is the only one that a major divide such as "subdivisions." Billybud is right when he says D1 is rated on a continuum. D1 is the FBS and FCS.

[BYUfan1]

None of those Big 10 teams were that great. I think you and Billybud are talking past each other. Usually Billybud's context is in terms of national ranking or national title contention. The MAC has an overall non-competitive record against the Big 10, especially ones that end up with winning records.

I just gave you examples of MAC schools beating Big 10 schools. How many times do they have to win to be competitive. Certainly, the percentage is not any worse than FCS teams beating FBS schools. Last year, it was just over 5% (5 wins in 94 tries).

What difference does it make what Big 10 schools the MAC is beating? As long as Indiana is in the Big 10, beating them means you beat a Big 10 school. Now you sound like Billybud, putting qualifications into every statement.

[BYUfan1]

There is still a Division I. Schools like Kennesaw State and San Diego are considered D1 in most sports, but football is the only one that a major divide such as "subdivisions." Billybud is right when he says D1 is rated on a continuum. D1 is the FBS and FCS.

I don't believe Kennesaw State has a football team. DI may be the FBS and FCS, but it is not called Division I in football any longer, hence the terms FBS and FCS. How can FBS and FCS be rated on a contiuum when there is a crossover in FCS schools and Division II playing each other, and Division II schools are not in the rankings? Why don't you answer for Billybud why Division II and Division III schools are not part of this same continuum.