UCLA and Nebraska

[Vileborg]

I know my stuff isn't perfect but it is useful information to me so I can make an informed decision and unlike BCS or BCS aspiring polls I absolutely use margin of victory.

[armchairqb]

Welcome to the board, Patrick.

The anomalies you brought up concerning polling in general are interesting as is Donovan's take on it.

My take on it is this, IMO: The root level for me is how the team is doing this year. It is not the only thing I take into account. There is no doubt that past performance (e.g. "last three years, give or take a year") figures in to the mix, though supplementary.

I don't figure past performance of the last three years into the mix(doesn't mean I won't figure in past three weeks) when a H2H is recorded. UCLA defeated Nebraska and they both have the same record; therefore a few of the reasons I have UCLA just above Nebraska in my poll. That ranking makes sense to me at this point of the season. Other factors are bound to occur that can change that as the season continues.

We still have a little over half of a regular season to go and I'm looking forward to some exciting football the rest of the way.

[Spence]

Welcome to the board, Patrick.

The anomalies you brought up concerning polling in general are interesting as is Donovan's take on it.

My take on it is this, IMO: The root level for me is how the team is doing this year. It is not the only thing I take into account. There is no doubt that past performance (e.g. "last three years, give or take a year") figures in to the mix, though supplementary.

I don't figure past performance of the last three years into the mix(doesn't mean I won't figure in past three weeks) when a H2H is recorded. UCLA defeated Nebraska and they both have the same record; therefore a few of the reasons I have UCLA just above Nebraska in my poll. That ranking makes sense to me at this point of the season. Other factors are bound to occur that can change that as the season continues.

We still have a little over half of a regular season to go and I'm looking forward to some exciting football the rest of the way.

I think everybody figures in past performance even it is not on purpose. My veiw on polls is that if you take an honest look at the teams and rank them accordingly, you will have a good poll. I don't even have a problem with someone being biased for their team. I don't know how you wouldn't be biased toward a team you follow. As long as you try not to be biased against any team, I think it doesn't matter and the poll will work itself out.

[promanmiller]

Okay, I'm back with the whole UCLA and Nebraska thing and the rankings here. I thought they were to be sorted out by now. Or is this simply some sort of bias?

Nebraska lost to UCLA 30-36
UCLA lost to Oregon State 20-27
Oregon State beat Wisconsin 10-7
Nebraska beat Wisconsin 30-27

Yet, the three teams are ranked here as follows:

Nebraska #16
Oregon State #21
UCLA #29

UCLA is ranked the same 13 spots behind Nebraska after beating them in September.

Oh, come on. Really?

Patrick

[promanmiller]

More stats:

Passing Yards
Nebraska: 80th
Oregon State: 21st
UCLA: 28th

Rushing Yards
Nebraska: 6th
Oregon State: 108th
UCLA: 17th

Points For
Nebraska: 20th
Oregon State: 77th
UCLA: 22nd

Points Against
Nebraska: 54th
Oregon State: 19th
UCLA: 43rd

[Spence]

Okay, I'm back with the whole UCLA and Nebraska thing and the rankings here. I thought they were to be sorted out by now. Or is this simply some sort of bias?

Nebraska lost to UCLA 30-36
UCLA lost to Oregon State 20-27
Oregon State beat Wisconsin 10-7
Nebraska beat Wisconsin 30-27

Yet, the three teams are ranked here as follows:

Nebraska #16
Oregon State #21
UCLA #29

UCLA is ranked the same 13 spots behind Nebraska after beating them in September.

Oh, come on. Really?

Patrick

The reason, I think, Nebraska is ahead of UCLA is that Nebraska started out ahead of UCLA at the beginning of the year in the polls. Is that fair? No. It is how the polls seem to work. A better question to me, though, is why does it matter. 16th probably won't get Nebraska in the BCS, nor wouldit get UCLA or Oregon State in. Nebraska could win the B-10 championship. They control their own destiny in their division and they could win the division. Especially since Ohio State and Penn State aren't eligible to play in post season games. UCLA probably won't get into a BCS game, but the reason they won't will have nothing to do with their poll ranking.

Personally. I believe the polls as they are today are a giant joke. But as someone who has tried to be totally consistent voting in a poll, I have found that it isn't possible to be consistent after 6 games. I also believe that poll position only matters if you are ranked in the top 5 now and the top 8 to 10 when the playoffs start it doesn't really matter where you finish. Well, except for pride.

I would much rather see computer based rankings and performance based scheduling decide the top 25 or 100 or whatever, but that isn't going to happen because the powers that be want to control the pool they draw the championship teams from each year.

Please stick around, though, and maybe vote in our poll next year. If you try to do it right, you will learn how hard it is to try and be objective and consistent. I have found it is better to just be honest. Put your honest opinion about who the best teams are and let the chips fall where they may. It is OK to be a little biased for your team as long as you aren't bias against any other teams. If you are honest about that, it's a good sampling and the total poll will work itself out.

[Eric]

I've had a couple issues pop up in my polling recently. I have Oregon State ranked #17. I can't really deny the wins on the field (BYU, Wisconsin, Arizona, UCLA, Arizona State, a solid resume), but I'm just not buying it. There are a lot of instances where a team is a few breaks away from 8-1 and 6-3 and I have continually gotten the vibe from the Beavers that they are the little team that could who happened to string some wins together. I have a hard time ranking them in the top 10 ahead of teams like Oklahoma and Texas A&M. If they beat Stanford this upcoming week, I'll be a believer and they'll shoot up my poll. Until then though, I'm going to have my reservations. And it's probably not fair to them, but I'm trying to put together and honest poll.

I'm also trying to make sure I'm fair to the Big 12. As I've been saying all year long, a team with three conference losses in the Big 12 isn't necessarily a bad team. I still have Texas Tech ranked at 6-3 and I have TCU ranked with three losses because every single week in that league is going to be a contest besides the week you stumble upon Kansas.

I do have Nebraska ranked ahead of UCLA, but that was because I punished UCLA pretty hard for getting blown out against Cal. They fell off of my top 25 radar and Nebraska sneaked back in quicker. UCLA squeaked past a mediocre Utah team, so I didn't take notice and re-rank the Bruins until they beat Arizona State. So for me it's a matter of timing, but I have Nebraska two spots ahead of UCLA. If these two teams played today, I'd probably lean towards Nebraska, but I'd be splitting hairs. The season will sort these things out as we close out the schedule.



The problem with polling is that you want to say, "A beat B, so clearly A deserves to be ahead of B." But a couple weeks down the road, the nature of the teams change and their performances against other teams who are good and who are bad start to vary. Then you have to take those performances into account. If Youngstown State beats Pittsburgh and then they go on to post a 2-4 record in Missouri Valley Conference play (as has happened this year) and I had to rank all of Division I, I couldn't justify putting Youngstown over Pitt who appears to be a superior team at this point in time. Stuff happens and you can't be too myopic and just focus on the one meeting. Obviously things become more simple when you distill it down to two teams like Nebraska and UCLA who have identical records, but the same principle applies although to a smaller degree.