Big East = Dead League Walking

[Eric]

It sounds like the Catholic basketball schools are getting ready to bolt. Marquette, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Providence, and Seton Hall all want out due to the recent expansion. The caliber teams they are bringing in just aren't going to cut it, especially from a basketball perspective (Tulane, Houston, and SMU have been pretty bad). It sounds like they're going to form their own conference and maybe bring in Dayton, Xavier, St. Joe's, or Duquense, or they'll just all get absorbed into the Atlantic 10.

Of course, now what happens to the Big East? UConn will get poached by the ACC, no doubt. Their basketball program is just too valuable. This leaves Cincinnati and USF as the only interesting targets and the ACC would probably go with Cincinnati, leaving USF out in the cold. Of course, depending on how the ACC gets poached, they may have to settle for both of these teams and add an ECU, Southern Miss, or Marshall depending on the amount of defections. Rumors have involved NC State, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Miami, Clemson, and Florida State, so you never know who is going to be available or what they're going to have to replace.

The Big East basically forms into C-USA+. San Diego State and Boise State will go back to the Mountain West. Contrary to my post title, I think the Big East will actually survive after this with the teams in the conference, but it is just going to be a mediocre mish-mash of former C-USA teams and a mid-major conference like the new C-USA or Mountain West (the Mountain West being the best "Group of Five" conference if they can lure Boise and SDSU back). So, as we know the Big East, it is a dead league walking.

[Cane from the Bend]

The report I'm getting, is the Catholic Basketball Schools (or non-FBS) are meeting to see if they have the votes to just scrap the conference outright.

I haven't heard anything along the lines of the Carolina Schools looking to move from their bread & butter.

If the ACC becomes too basketball heavy; look for a Southern Exodus.

Also, two of the Big East teams would likely end up in the Big Ten.
There was a recent footnote made by Delany, saying the Big 10 at 16 would be a nice fit.

Looks as though Spence was right . . .

B1G seems to have been their goal all along.
They just needed the right dominoes to fall.

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[Eric]

The B1G, from what I've heard, is seriously considering Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and Virginia. It would be difficult for the B1G to get their hands on UNC without Duke, since that rivalry is so pivotal. The SEC, trying to expand their footprint, would be most interested in NC State and Virginia Tech, probably since North Carolina would be hard to get because they may want to stick with Duke. The Big 12 is looking at Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Clemson from what I can tell. But all of this stuff is rumor-driven. You don't know what is true since the conference bigwigs mostly keep this stuff pretty close to the vest.

I don't know who the B1G would look at from the current Big East except for UConn. Cincinnati steps on Ohio State's toes and they don't have the academic rating. The B1G is apparently a stickler for that AAU rating, so that doesn't work in UConn's favor. The last AAU teams remaining in the B1G's region that wouldn't be geographically insane would be Texas, Kansas, Buffalo, Rice, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Pitt, and Duke.

I guess the best thing about expanding eastward would be that it would spur on a change in divisional alignment. Hopefully by then we can get a serious East/West alignment that makes sense. They should be trying to foster some geographic rivalries and I think this would stick Michigan and Ohio State in the same eastern division. But I wouldn't put it past Delany to force Michigan and Ohio State to be separate yet again

[Swamp Daddy]

Well, no easy answe for sure. I think the remaining basketball powers will have two options:
1) dissolve the league
2) keep the BE name and run out all the watered down new teams entering, later adding decent basketball only teams.

New BE entries do not get a vote until full members next year. UL and Rutgers no longer have a vote as they are leaving.

If the league dissolves (50-50), then UL may be in the ACC next season instead of the season after and probably the ACC would wave Marylands exit fee (in part) and UL would instantly get the MD schedule.

Some interesting possibilities there.

Swamp Daddy

[Spence]

The B1G, from what I've heard, is seriously considering Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and Virginia. It would be difficult for the B1G to get their hands on UNC without Duke, since that rivalry is so pivotal. The SEC, trying to expand their footprint, would be most interested in NC State and Virginia Tech, probably since North Carolina would be hard to get because they may want to stick with Duke. The Big 12 is looking at Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Clemson from what I can tell. But all of this stuff is rumor-driven. You don't know what is true since the conference bigwigs mostly keep this stuff pretty close to the vest.

I don't know who the B1G would look at from the current Big East except for UConn. Cincinnati steps on Ohio State's toes and they don't have the academic rating. The B1G is apparently a stickler for that AAU rating, so that doesn't work in UConn's favor. The last AAU teams remaining in the B1G's region that wouldn't be geographically insane would be Texas, Kansas, Buffalo, Rice, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Pitt, and Duke.

I guess the best thing about expanding eastward would be that it would spur on a change in divisional alignment. Hopefully by then we can get a serious East/West alignment that makes sense. They should be trying to foster some geographic rivalries and I think this would stick Michigan and Ohio State in the same eastern division. But I wouldn't put it past Delany to force Michigan and Ohio State to be separate yet again

I think the only way Delany puts Ohio State and Michigan in the same division is if he gives up on forcing Notre Dame into the conference. I don't think he will ever give up on it. You are right about Ohio State keeping Cincinnati out, the will never let Cincy in the B-10.

I really think Delany is going to try and BC. I don't think AAU status is as important as TV markets and trying to force ND into the conference. The presidents could object, but as long as he is lining their pockets, I don't see it. I think Pitt is a real possibility as well.

[Cane from the Bend]

Delany maybe shooting himself in the foot, with that for instance.

ND clearly wants to remain a Football independent. If the ACC starts to unravel, and the Southern school join with the
Big 12 . . . Notre Dame might try to sign the same sort of contract there.

I don't see how the Big 12 could refuse that potential money draw.
And I do not believe Delany would let ND in the B1G as a partial member.

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[donovan]

It's about time Basketball stood up to the Pimp driven football of ESPN. Conference realignment for football has been lousy for every trick out there, except the pimp. And like most pimps, ESPN will throw out the prostituted football conferences like Roy Campanella did some dawdling New York Yankee....if only Campy could have been a Yankee..but I digress.

[Spence]

Delany maybe shooting himself in the foot, with that for instance.

ND clearly wants to remain a Football independent. If the ACC starts to unravel, and the Southern school join with the
Big 12 . . . Notre Dame might try to sign the same sort of contract there.

I don't see how the Big 12 could refuse that potential money draw.
And I do not believe Delany would let ND in the B1G as a partial member.

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He won't. The only reason he wants Notre Dame is for football. They aren't a fit at all in the B-10 except geographically. They are a small school. They are not an AAU member. I don't see Notre Dame ever joining the B-10 and I don't want them to. The concessions that would have to be given would create bad blood among member schools. Delany should forget about the Domers and concentrate on the future.

[Eric]

The B1G, from what I've heard, is seriously considering Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and Virginia. It would be difficult for the B1G to get their hands on UNC without Duke, since that rivalry is so pivotal. The SEC, trying to expand their footprint, would be most interested in NC State and Virginia Tech, probably since North Carolina would be hard to get because they may want to stick with Duke. The Big 12 is looking at Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Clemson from what I can tell. But all of this stuff is rumor-driven. You don't know what is true since the conference bigwigs mostly keep this stuff pretty close to the vest.

I don't know who the B1G would look at from the current Big East except for UConn. Cincinnati steps on Ohio State's toes and they don't have the academic rating. The B1G is apparently a stickler for that AAU rating, so that doesn't work in UConn's favor. The last AAU teams remaining in the B1G's region that wouldn't be geographically insane would be Texas, Kansas, Buffalo, Rice, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Pitt, and Duke.

I guess the best thing about expanding eastward would be that it would spur on a change in divisional alignment. Hopefully by then we can get a serious East/West alignment that makes sense. They should be trying to foster some geographic rivalries and I think this would stick Michigan and Ohio State in the same eastern division. But I wouldn't put it past Delany to force Michigan and Ohio State to be separate yet again

I think the only way Delany puts Ohio State and Michigan in the same division is if he gives up on forcing Notre Dame into the conference. I don't think he will ever give up on it. You are right about Ohio State keeping Cincinnati out, the will never let Cincy in the B-10.

I really think Delany is going to try and BC. I don't think AAU status is as important as TV markets and trying to force ND into the conference. The presidents could object, but as long as he is lining their pockets, I don't see it. I think Pitt is a real possibility as well.

Even though I don't want to expand to 16 teams, I would just hope that these people would be sane enough to make it geographic. The only way you're going to draw a lot of continual interest in the sport and the teams your given program faces is if they have some geographical tie together. And if the next two teams they add are from the East, you would naturally want to keep Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, and these two teams together. I think the geography-driven divisions split rather well together:

East
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1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Penn State
5. Maryland
6. Rutgers
7/8. Virginia/UNC/Pitt/BC/UConn/Syracuse

West
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1. Minnesota
2. Illinois
3. Northwestern
4. Wisconsin
5. Iowa
6. Nebraska
7. Indiana
8. Purdue


The only problem I could see with this alignment would be the balance. The East here seems historically better, even with Penn State getting gutted. I know in recent years, the trio of Wisconsin/Iowa/Nebraska has been as good if not on par with Ohio State / Michigan / Penn State. But for the sake of balance, I could see them maybe swapping Michigan/Ohio State for one of the Indiana schools, but then we get back to where we were: Ohio State and Michigan playing on the last week of the regular season and then maybe having to face each other in the championship game. It would be UCLA/Stanford part 2 where UCLA sandbagged it against the Cardinal or where Michigan/Ohio State could actually be punished by winning and having to face a better team, setting up the UCLA/Stanford dilemma.

I think the new divisions would be as I posted them above, but trading Michigan and Michigan State with Indiana and Purdue. It wouldn't be a true geographic split, but that's because, as you said, Delaney wants them separated for the possibility of a rematch in Indianapolis or, maybe in the future, Chicago. But now that I think about it, with Michigan playing Ohio State every season, it decreases the chances of them rematching because, especially when you get into a 16 team megaconference, the opponent you draw from the opposite division is going to be a big deal. In the next couple years, some team is going to draw Indiana and some other team (probably Michigan) is going to draw a world-class Ohio State or vice versa. The loser is going to be facing a lot of competition from behind and it's likely that the loser gets bounced from the championship game altogether. The team behind Michigan or Ohio State won't have to play Michigan or Ohio State, avoiding a potential loss (assuming as I do rather presumptuously that Michigan is going to get back to an elite level ).

[Eric]

I think the biggest tragedy of the megaconference is that you're going to lose your connection to the other side, at least in football. We all know how football drives most of the interest in college sports and when as a Michigan fan I would stop seeing Wisconsin or Purdue or whomever on the gridiron every year, you lose what connected you to the other school. There's eight other teams in your conference and you'll only get to see one of them on a yearly basis. So the next time Michigan plays Wisconsin, it won't feel the same. It'll be like a long lost relative. I guess in Michigan's situation, we actually will never play teams from the other division with a 16-team alignment since we'll play seven divisional opponents and Ohio State, unless maybe they want to go to a 9-game conference schedule which hurts your opportunities to rack up easy wins and avoid losses for tournament positioning, but I digress.

Even in the SEC, Alabama and Georgia make great opponents, but how long had it been since they last played? Can they think of themselves as conference rivals at that point? And I know this only applies to football as in basketball you'd see each other at least yearly and most of the time you'd face each other twice per season. But still.

And I should restate that the best thing about expanding eastward, for me at least, would be the formation of B1G lacrosse. Virginia, UNC, and Syracuse have stellar lacrosse programs. UConn has one that is pretty mediocre. But one more team is all we need to get the conference together. Boston College sounds interested in starting a program up.

[Swamp Daddy]

While not exactly a can of worms it is a can of slime for the BE. Maybe a toss against the wall (of remaining teams) and interpreting the resulting mess to see who goes where will work. Like pin the tale on the donkey??

It now seems maybe UL was the last peg holding them together though we scooted out the door quick enough (after pulling our peg) that it didn't hit us in the rear. Maybe the fold was coming anyway. It seems to bog down when you try any sort of logic on it.

I feel sorry for Cincinnati, Uconn and incoming Memphis most of all.

Swamp Daddy

[Spence]

I think the biggest tragedy of the megaconference is that you're going to lose your connection to the other side, at least in football. We all know how football drives most of the interest in college sports and when as a Michigan fan I would stop seeing Wisconsin or Purdue or whomever on the gridiron every year, you lose what connected you to the other school. There's eight other teams in your conference and you'll only get to see one of them on a yearly basis. So the next time Michigan plays Wisconsin, it won't feel the same. It'll be like a long lost relative. I guess in Michigan's situation, we actually will never play teams from the other division with a 16-team alignment since we'll play seven divisional opponents and Ohio State, unless maybe they want to go to a 9-game conference schedule which hurts your opportunities to rack up easy wins and avoid losses for tournament positioning, but I digress.

Even in the SEC, Alabama and Georgia make great opponents, but how long had it been since they last played? Can they think of themselves as conference rivals at that point? And I know this only applies to football as in basketball you'd see each other at least yearly and most of the time you'd face each other twice per season. But still.

And I should restate that the best thing about expanding eastward, for me at least, would be the formation of B1G lacrosse. Virginia, UNC, and Syracuse have stellar lacrosse programs. UConn has one that is pretty mediocre. But one more team is all we need to get the conference together. Boston College sounds interested in starting a program up.

I agree. That is what I hate about divisions and conferences with more than 10 teams. I think 8 teams would be perfect. The divisions really create two different small conferences not one big one. The two don't play each other much and the only time they really meet is in a conference championship. It is like a regional playoff game more than a conference championship. And to create these mega conferences, they have trashed a lot of traditions.

[billybud]

Heck...almost all of the pundits have the ACC as a Dead Man Walking.

I can't yet wrap my head around FSU playing in a division with Iowa State, Kansas, and Kansas State out west of the Big Muddy.

[Spence]

Seems to me the SEC would be a better fit for the Seminoles.

[armchairqb]

The Big East has been the one poached most by other conferences. Being the sixth ranked college conference in visibility and market standing only is not an enviable position. Their situation proves there is no more viability in being in that position. The ACC, in the fifth spot, will soon find themselves in the same situation.

I'm glad the basketball schools put their foot down and broke away. The Big East was initially a basketball driven conference. For breaking away en masse, they apparently don't have to pay an exit fee. I'm pretty sure Boise, SD St and a few other BE schools have noted that for legal purposes...